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Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#291

Post by TomatoDash »

tpmx wrote: post #202

The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed... BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID T…

Short clip of a customer entering a competing swedish cashless store via BankID app https://youtu.be/Rbm_puP4PgA?t=13

Swedes also use the BankID app for online interactions with health care and other public services. Last year I did my taxes in under 60 seconds. (Get notification; BankID login; check prefilled values from bank, employer etcetera; BankID sign.)

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#292

Post by gerikson »

cambaceres wrote: post #221
tpmx wrote: post #202

The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed... BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID T…

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. I don't agree. I'm a Swede too (as I assume you are), and I have basically never heard anyone complain of BankID being owned by the banks. I am really happy that our government does not own BankID, since they suck badly at developing software.

Googling “ bankid privatägd kritik” gave me one hit - to Flashback. Hardly mainstream...

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#293

Post by kalleboo »

guerrilla wrote: post #113
alexf95 wrote: post #2

Ok but what if I wanted to shop without a smartphone, or don't own one? Don't get me wrong this is great for the current situation but like all things it doesn't only have good things about it.

Then you're going to have an extremely difficult time in Sweden. The same system is used for online banking, paying you taxes, verifying online purchases, accessing online pharmacies and medical systems, and using online doctors. I'm sure there's a dozen more services that I'm forgetting that use BankID.

I read it's also required to book an appointment to get the covid vaccine

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#294

Post by EE84M3i »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #261
t_von_doom wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the UK some stores offer a handheld wireless scanner at the entrance to the store (and some chains offer an app so you can use your phone too) You then scan items as you pick them off the shelf - if you're really prepared you put the item directly into a bag you brought with you. Payment is then a case of walking up to the till - human or machine - and scanning one final barcode. Your order is presented to yo…

QFC tried this in the Seattle area. I actually never tried because it feels more cumbersome than just scanning everything at once. Also, scales to price veggies and fruits are at checkouts in the states. If they had them in the veggie area, like in much of Europe, things might be really different.

Do the scales potentially have to be there by weights and measures laws?

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#295

Post by Dma54rhs »

detaro wrote: post #176
distances wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which EU countries have cigarette vending machines? I've never seen such a thing, in the countries I shop they're behind a cashier. Sometimes even hidden so that if you don't know what to ask for you're not getting it.

Germany, Austria, Italy at least.

Spain as well, you can't get cigs from gas stations or super markets like in the UK.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#296

Post by TehCorwiz »

slt2021 wrote: post #270
JasonFruit wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. At risk of sounding snarky, I'm growing in awareness that the anonymous nature of paper money and coin had a lot of advantages. I would be unhappy if the only option for groceries in my area required me to strongly identify myself to shop there.

there are prepaid visa/mc cards which can give you anonymity while still using card. accepting cash, means a store has to be staffed with people and it makes it more expensive to run business=>higher prices for products

Those cost money and act as a regressive tax on the poor. Effectively raising prices on them.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#297

Post by karaterobot »

INTPenis wrote: post #265
JasonFruit wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. At risk of sounding snarky, I'm growing in awareness that the anonymous nature of paper money and coin had a lot of advantages. I would be unhappy if the only option for groceries in my area required me to strongly identify myself to shop there.

Why? Why are you worried about disclosing how much milk and eggs you buy? I know this is the age old "I have nothing to hide" argument but I truly am curious why people are so afraid of saying where they're travelling (train tickets) or what they're buying (shops). Don't you think that once that dystopian future comes - when that info might be used against you - we'll have much worse things to worry about?

> Don't you think that once that dystopian future comes - when that info might be used against you - we'll have much worse things to worry about?

What if this kind of technology helps create that dystopian future? What if this kind of technology makes it worse, or at least harder to fix? More sinister and more protracted, so to speak.

We aren't in that future yet, and it won't happen overnight or through one big rollout. We'll get to that future through small, incremental steps that all seem perfectly reasonable at the time.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#298

Post by Dma54rhs »

kalleboo wrote: post #287
Grustaf wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stealing is still a crime, so there is no need to have direct access to your account. At the very least you would owe the store for what you stole, just like if you're late on an electricity bill. You essentially can't escape that without emigrating.

I want to add a note to people who aren't familiar - Sweden has a government debt collector[0]. Unlike the US where I'l told you can mostly dodge private debts and it just becomes a massive nuisance and credit nightmare, in Sweden the government will actually garnish your salary and repossess your stuff for private debts. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Enforcement_Authority

I believe it's also called court bailiff and is fairly usual thing in the EU.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#299

Post by dheera »

tpmx wrote: post #202

The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed... BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID T…

Also worth noting is that this is not Amazon Go. Customers have to be honest and scan items.

We're not civilized enough here in the US for such nice things.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#300

Post by etiam »

slt2021 wrote: post #270
JasonFruit wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. At risk of sounding snarky, I'm growing in awareness that the anonymous nature of paper money and coin had a lot of advantages. I would be unhappy if the only option for groceries in my area required me to strongly identify myself to shop there.

there are prepaid visa/mc cards which can give you anonymity while still using card. accepting cash, means a store has to be staffed with people and it makes it more expensive to run business=>higher prices for products

> there are prepaid visa/mc cards which can give you anonymity while still using card.

There kind of isn't, at least in Sweden. The option that does exist is a seedy borderline scam with exorbitant overhead and hidden usury fees, which will effectively confiscate your remaining money a few months in.

Also, in stark contrast to real cash, it still results in a log of all the transactions and ties them up to one weakly pseudonymous identity which will be re-identified at one single purchase with an identifiable connection, or could by from a collection of weaker clues. That is, for instance, goodbye to ever using it for anything with an account, unless you also want to announce you probably bought everything else the card was ever used for.

It's cheaper to dump toxic waste in the bay than to have someone neutralize it as well, and personally I'm positively delighted the resulting products cost more instead. There are lots discounts that should be shunned, and in my opinion this one is a prime example.

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