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Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#281

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

vages wrote: post #162

There will be a market for both automated and manned grocery stores in the future. Until we have developed artificial general intelligence, I wouldn't trust a computer to recommend a cheese to with a certain kind of crackers. In stores with a reasonably wide selection of goods, I usually have to ask for the location of at least one thing. Although locating stuff _could_ be solved by looking it up with an app, I would…

> There will be a market for both automated and manned grocery stores in the future.

I don't think there will be. In countries like the Nordic countries with very high costs of labor, specialty physical retail locations of all sorts have been closing left and right, with people now ordering those things online. Certainly some consumers enjoy shopping in a shops with social interaction, but not enough to keep those shops solvent in the long haul.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#282

Post by kalleboo »

tasogare wrote: post #87
dhimes wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grocery store has a self-scan and checkout that works on trust basis with random audits. Some stores had to get rid of it because of stealing, but thankfully mine has kept it. I find it very fast and don't mind the occasional audits at all. Small price to pay, and still faster than if I had stayed in line.

The value the self-scan systems have for the shop owners is not in automation but the fact the work is reported on customer, with of course no price reduction. That should be forbidden. I boycott those systems and wait for the human clerk to do his job, this way a little of the money made by the shop is redistributed.

Should flat-pack furniture that you have to assemble yourself also be forbidden?

Should Gentoo Linux that you have to compile the kernel yourself also be forbidden?

Should cooking at home also be forbidden?

Where does the line go where you have to pay someone to do something for you instead of doing it yourself?

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#283

Post by hellbannedguy »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #264
qmmmur wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done plenty of jobs that are shit pay in the same tier of manual labour (stockist, hospitality) and have never met anyone in that field who didn't want to do somethinge else if possible.

In the Nordic countries, those manual labor jobs are union jobs. Sure, pay is lower than other jobs, but thanks to collective bargaining and the union having your back in case of unforeseen overtime, it isn't "shit pay" like it might be in, say, the United States. I worked some of those jobs when I was in uni, and many of my coworkers were older people who had decided to stay for the long haul, because it does feel l…

In the USA, we used to have union grocery stores.

It seems like every year we are loosing more union jobs than ever.

Safeway has always been a hated place to work, but it used to pay their employees a decent salary with benefits.

Now—they have a weird semi union status. They load up the stores with desperate people, and still manage to make them maybe the most angry workers I have seen. I overheard one manager tell an employee yesterday to drive to a store two hours away, and be there by 7:00 am! The employee just looked crushed. That kind of crap didn’t happen in union shops.

I guess the future will be self checkouts, security cams everywhere, and facial recognition to track.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#284

Post by paganel »

eythian wrote: post #192
paganel wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what will the non-banked people do in the future? Their life is in many cases miserable enough as it is, not being able to purchase basic groceries because you don't have a credit/debit card is next-level capitalist dystopia.

In some countries, and I wouldn't be surprised if Sweden is one of them, it's a requirement that you be allowed to have a bank account. You can't be refused.

That’s very good to hear, from where I’m from (Eastern Europe) a bank account is very heavily linked to a current physical address (as in, you must have a physical address officially attached to your name which in itself is a quite cumbersome process) and oftentimes with an additional proof (like an utilities bill on your name attached to that address). That makes getting a bank account a little difficult for many people.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#285

Post by azpotufi »

INTPenis wrote: post #265
JasonFruit wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. At risk of sounding snarky, I'm growing in awareness that the anonymous nature of paper money and coin had a lot of advantages. I would be unhappy if the only option for groceries in my area required me to strongly identify myself to shop there.

Why? Why are you worried about disclosing how much milk and eggs you buy? I know this is the age old "I have nothing to hide" argument but I truly am curious why people are so afraid of saying where they're travelling (train tickets) or what they're buying (shops). Don't you think that once that dystopian future comes - when that info might be used against you - we'll have much worse things to worry about?

This data will invariably be sold to health insurance companies who will use any excuse to make you pay a premium.

Bought four bottles of olive oil? You're going to get very fat, better make you pay a premium! Who cares if you actually used it to make soap?

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#286

Post by jtxx »

random_upvoter wrote: post #257
qmmmur wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point? That people should be indentured in low paying jobs to be old people's friends?

Don't underestimate the satisfaction of a job where you don't have to prostitute your brain and where you can send a smile to people a couple of times a day.

worked in restaurants for years before moving to software engineering. despite being 'good' at coding, it screws me up a bit that I was a lot happier in many ways while working at a restaurant. i felt I had a lot more brain bandwidth for my personal activities outside of work, too

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#287

Post by kalleboo »

Grustaf wrote: post #125
konschubert wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they have a way to identify you and prevent you from signing up again under another name. How else are they going to block you? But just because they have your BankID it doesn't mean that they have your account balance or other banking data, if that's what you're referring to.

Stealing is still a crime, so there is no need to have direct access to your account. At the very least you would owe the store for what you stole, just like if you're late on an electricity bill. You essentially can't escape that without emigrating.

I want to add a note to people who aren't familiar - Sweden has a government debt collector[0]. Unlike the US where I'l told you can mostly dodge private debts and it just becomes a massive nuisance and credit nightmare, in Sweden the government will actually garnish your salary and repossess your stuff for private debts.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Enforcement_Authority

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#288

Post by dalbasal »

cambaceres wrote: post #221
tpmx wrote: post #202

The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed... BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID T…

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. I don't agree. I'm a Swede too (as I assume you are), and I have basically never heard anyone complain of BankID being owned by the banks. I am really happy that our government does not own BankID, since they suck badly at developing software.

"Ownership" is can be kind of abstract, in this context.

A service like this needs to be infrastructure, one way or another. Secure, reasonably neutral, trusted... You don't want it serving as a retaining wall for a monopoly.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#289

Post by istjohn »

chrisseaton wrote: post #80
the-dude wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite supermarket has regular and 'quick' checkouts. I enjoy the interaction with the employees.

> I enjoy the interaction with the employees. If you want to pay for someone to be social with you why not do that separately to shopping? Seems funny to try to mix the two.

Pay for someone to be social with you? Like RentAFriend[1]?

1. https://rentafriend.com/whatis

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#290

Post by hrydgard »

t_von_doom wrote: post #256
aivisol wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I use self service checkout, it always takes much longer time for me to get through. I guess I am not so good at quickly juggling and locating bar codes at each item as the staff working at checkout are. So I leave it to professionals.

Here in the UK some stores offer a handheld wireless scanner at the entrance to the store (and some chains offer an app so you can use your phone too) You then scan items as you pick them off the shelf - if you're really prepared you put the item directly into a bag you brought with you. Payment is then a case of walking up to the till - human or machine - and scanning one final barcode. Your order is presented to yo…

This does exist in many bigger stores in Sweden too, and it's bliss.
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