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Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#271

Post by gerikson »

throwaway4good wrote: post #259
tpmx wrote: post #202

The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed... BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID T…

The Danish parallel to BankId - NemID / MitID is also partly owned by the banking cartel: https://digst.dk/it-loesninger/mitid/partnerskabet/ It is a curious construction; we wouldn't accept a personal id card issued / owned by banks but for the digital equivalent we do so with little debate.

Banks issued ID cards in Sweden for decades. Source: I worked as a teller and knew the procedure.

Passports only became legal IDs in the last decade or so.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#272

Post by slt2021 »

INTPenis wrote: post #265
JasonFruit wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. At risk of sounding snarky, I'm growing in awareness that the anonymous nature of paper money and coin had a lot of advantages. I would be unhappy if the only option for groceries in my area required me to strongly identify myself to shop there.

Why? Why are you worried about disclosing how much milk and eggs you buy? I know this is the age old "I have nothing to hide" argument but I truly am curious why people are so afraid of saying where they're travelling (train tickets) or what they're buying (shops). Don't you think that once that dystopian future comes - when that info might be used against you - we'll have much worse things to worry about?

the actual dystopian future is corporates have so much data they have collected for years that they don't know what to do with it.

so the most likely scenario is even if data will be collected on you, nobody will be able to use it in any meaningful way

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#273

Post by istjohn »

crocodiletears wrote: post #238
random_upvoter wrote: post #104

I worked in a supermarket for a while and there was plenty of old people who came to that shop almost daily just to interact with another human being.

There's an interchangeable, overpriced, soulless gas-station chain on nearly every street corner in my town. When I fill up my tank at any one of them, I'm forced to listen to the sound of 9+ pumps puke out celebrity-gossip, advertainment pieces, and PSAs telling me about the coronavirus. You can't mute them anymore. Inside, the shelves are lined with nearly identical selections of overpriced merchandise. I could be…

I hate those auto-playing advertisements at the pump with a perhaps inexplicable passion. The worst is that they often can be muted by pressing one of six unlabeled buttons. As if they knew there would be people who would find the adverts obnoxious and want to mute them, but wanted to ensure that only people so enraged as to take to blindly smashing buttons would find the mute feature before they bashed the screen with the pump handle. Such blatant distain for their customers.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#274

Post by llampx »

INTPenis wrote: post #265
JasonFruit wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. At risk of sounding snarky, I'm growing in awareness that the anonymous nature of paper money and coin had a lot of advantages. I would be unhappy if the only option for groceries in my area required me to strongly identify myself to shop there.

Why? Why are you worried about disclosing how much milk and eggs you buy? I know this is the age old "I have nothing to hide" argument but I truly am curious why people are so afraid of saying where they're travelling (train tickets) or what they're buying (shops). Don't you think that once that dystopian future comes - when that info might be used against you - we'll have much worse things to worry about?

Never thought I'd read the "What have you got to hide?" argument on HN of all places.

First of all, you're being disingenious by putting up a strawman argument about "how much milk and eggs you buy." It is never about only milk and eggs. Advertising is only a part of it. Once you have an ID required to shop there, you can easily track who was there. You can follow their movements around the shop with cameras once you've identified them at the register. You can see who was with them. You can use this for your own gains, let's say you are a bank employee or police officer who wants to keep tabs on your spouse. Or maybe you are a politician who wants to run a smear campaign on your opponent.

Also whether we'll have much worse things to worry about doesn't mean everything else before guillotines on the street can be hand-waved away.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#275

Post by cycomanic »

cambaceres wrote: post #221
tpmx wrote: post #202

The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed... BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID T…

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. I don't agree. I'm a Swede too (as I assume you are), and I have basically never heard anyone complain of BankID being owned by the banks. I am really happy that our government does not own BankID, since they suck badly at developing software.

Well the Swedish banks are pretty much the worst I've encountered anywhere, while the government is comparatively efficient (tax returns are very easy, apply for parental leave etc.). So yes please don't let the banks control it.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#276

Post by Entalpi »

cambaceres wrote: post #221
tpmx wrote: post #202

The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed... BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID T…

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. I don't agree. I'm a Swede too (as I assume you are), and I have basically never heard anyone complain of BankID being owned by the banks. I am really happy that our government does not own BankID, since they suck badly at developing software.

Honestly banks are pretty regulated and some insights are already in place (as they shiuld be). This does not exclude the need for more regulation and insight mind

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#277

Post by cambaceres »

dsco wrote: post #268
cambaceres wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. I don't agree. I'm a Swede too (as I assume you are), and I have basically never heard anyone complain of BankID being owned by the banks. I am really happy that our government does not own BankID, since they suck badly at developing software.

Try starting a Blockchain company and they will violently fight you until they’ve (the big banks) have shut down your access.

Have you tried? In that case, what happend?

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#278

Post by azalemeth »

throwaway4good wrote: post #259
tpmx wrote: post #202

The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed... BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID T…

The Danish parallel to BankId - NemID / MitID is also partly owned by the banking cartel: https://digst.dk/it-loesninger/mitid/partnerskabet/ It is a curious construction; we wouldn't accept a personal id card issued / owned by banks but for the digital equivalent we do so with little debate.

I just got NemID as a foreigner -- it took me about 4 months of circular references (x is closed because of covid, get it from y; y is shut because of covid -- try x) and a rooting trick on my phone to get the app to work. I am sure that it is nice for the government and the banks having a unified point of sale, but it _really_ took a lot of work to get sorted. I think I prefer the decentralised, less secure, presumably easier to defraud method…

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#279

Post by JasonFruit »

INTPenis wrote: post #265
JasonFruit wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. At risk of sounding snarky, I'm growing in awareness that the anonymous nature of paper money and coin had a lot of advantages. I would be unhappy if the only option for groceries in my area required me to strongly identify myself to shop there.

Why? Why are you worried about disclosing how much milk and eggs you buy? I know this is the age old "I have nothing to hide" argument but I truly am curious why people are so afraid of saying where they're travelling (train tickets) or what they're buying (shops). Don't you think that once that dystopian future comes - when that info might be used against you - we'll have much worse things to worry about?

For example, I'm disclosing my schedule: when I'm likely to be in a given neighborhood, at a certain store, or simply not at home. I'm disclosing my habits: do I buy alcohol frequently? Do I buy certain magazines?

None of it is critical information, but I'm not only handing it out, I'm wrapping it up into a neat, searchable bundle for bulk analysis. And more importantly, there will soon be no easy way to opt out; anyone who truly does have something to hide will be obvious by the lengths they must go to in doing so. This is one more step in a dangerous, inhuman direction.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#280

Post by tpmx »

cycomanic wrote: post #275
cambaceres wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. I don't agree. I'm a Swede too (as I assume you are), and I have basically never heard anyone complain of BankID being owned by the banks. I am really happy that our government does not own BankID, since they suck badly at developing software.

Well the Swedish banks are pretty much the worst I've encountered anywhere, while the government is comparatively efficient (tax returns are very easy, apply for parental leave etc.). So yes please don't let the banks control it.

In their defense: They used to be pretty good, before international money laundering became a giant thing. After recent regulations there are very few reasons for why they would want to accept foreign customers. Just too much risk.

I agree that something needs to be done.

They have been innovative in the past:

1996/1997: Mass adoption of two-factor hardware devices providing secure authentication for online banking.

2003: Leveraging the two-factor hardware devices to create BankID.

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