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Replaying real life: how the Waymo Driver avoids fatal human crashes

blog.waymo.com

131–140 of 182 posts

Re: Replaying real life: how the Waymo Driver avoids fatal human crashes

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yay. Let’s make driving a perk of being rich. All you poor schmucks can hoof it.

To a large extent, car ownership is already a perk of being “rich.” Looks how many people have trouble getting to voting locations or to vaccination sites.

[deleted]

Re: Replaying real life: how the Waymo Driver avoids fatal human crashes

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars have been pervasive for over a century and virtually none of the actual improvements in safety have come from "hoping humans do better". I disagree, given how standards for getting a driver's license are different between countries and getting more and more tighter. In the US, unless things are different from TV, you can get trained by someone else with a license in a regular car and do an exam. Over here, you…

Please stop thinking that one can know how “the states” are from a distance. The US is quite large and diverse. I’ve lived in four states and they were each significantly different in terms of legal structures, policies, culture, daily life etc. As an American I would rarely claim to know how things are in “the states.” I only know the parts I’ve lived in, or the few things that are actually federal in nature. The US…

As someone who has had a driver's license in the US for a very long time, my experience is that--as with many things--one of the main things that makes you a better driver is putting in hours driving. Could you move more of those hours into a supervised learning environment? Probably. But you do that at the cost of making getting a license more difficult, expensive, and exclusive (in an environment where driving is often not an optional thing if someone wants to make a living).

I'm not sure how "more expensive training" eliminates some people texting while driving.

Re: Replaying real life: how the Waymo Driver avoids fatal human crashes

#133
post #76

They can use it to start fixing the roads, not the cars. Just look at the cross intersection they use as an example, typical of the US. The ROAD is the death trap there. People are crossing each other at high speed, this is the BUG, and should be fixed. The proper solution is putting there a roundabout, and you will have instantly less fatal accidents. The US was the first to use roundabouts, but those early designs…

I do agree that road design would drastically cut down on excess speed and crashes. I'm not so sure about roundabouts as a solution though. Roundabouts may be useful to allow more cars to travel through a place but they are not great for other road users. I think you are also correct about the speed. Cars are mostly driving too fast. We have the tech to solve this problem today in a rather straightforward manner but the very idea of it makes people go crazy: speed governors on vehicles. The funny thing is, some places have them mandated on things like scooters and e-bikes, but a car with 700 HP that can go 180 mph does not have one and drives on the same road. There is a LOT of low hanging fruit.

Re: Replaying real life: how the Waymo Driver avoids fatal human crashes

#134
post #95
post #92

Another thing that would avoid fatal crashes is reducing the number of cars on the roads, making them smaller and making them slower. That's a lot cheaper than making them more complex.

Not leaving your house would solve a lot of things. Why don’t people do that? Anyway, slowing down traffic is not the answer. Driving should either be more automated or more engaging so drivers stop using their phones. 2 hours of driving 20 mph in a straight line will be boring enough to create more accidents.

If cars were limited to a certain speed it would for certain cut down on crashes. It would also cut down on fatalities. When the news article says "speed was not a factor", they are only referring to the fact that the driver was going at or under the posted speed. That does not mean speed was not a factor. You think it would not work because driving is boring? Perhaps if you can't handle driving responsibly, you should not do it?

Re: Replaying real life: how the Waymo Driver avoids fatal human crashes

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any solution that relies on "let's just make humans beings better" is basically doomed to failure and little more than hand wringing and virtue signalling. Cars have been pervasive for over a century and virtually none of the actual improvements in safety have come from "hoping humans do better".

> Cars have been pervasive for over a century and virtually none of the actual improvements in safety have come from "hoping humans do better". I disagree, given how standards for getting a driver's license are different between countries and getting more and more tighter. In the US, unless things are different from TV, you can get trained by someone else with a license in a regular car and do an exam. Over here, you…

One thing that was darned frustrating (but in my opinion a good idea) with the UK driving licence test is that the theory test includes a section on hazard perception, where you watch a series of videos and click when you spot something that is turning into a hazard. You need to click at the point where there is enough evidence from what you can see that the hazard may exist, regardless of whether the driver actually needed to take any avoidance action. It teaches you to look ahead, not just respond to what is happening right now. And yes, I took two attempts to pass it.

These are things like a small child that you could previously see on the pavement has disappeared behind an obstruction (so may suddenly step out into the road). Or a football coming across the road from a playing field (a child may run after it). Or a car on a side street going at a speed that is inconsistent with them stopping at the junction.

Re: Replaying real life: how the Waymo Driver avoids fatal human crashes

#136

This is really cool. I suspect that when we have self driving cars, it's going to take off very quickly due to insurance. In particular, if you are in a non self driving car and in an accident with a self driving one, it'll be hard to not be shown as at fault. So insurance I would guess go up based on the percentage of self driving cars, and likely be really cheap for self driving cars. I wonder if there's a period t…

On the other hand, if self-driving cars are as good at avoiding accidents as the article says that may cause the price of insurance for non-self-driving cars to fall.

I recall reading a few years ago that insurance companies are looking to partner with car manufactures. The idea is, when you purchase a full self-driving vehicle, insurance will be included with the cost of the car.

Re: Replaying real life: how the Waymo Driver avoids fatal human crashes

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The rear-ending problem will be solved as automatic emergency braking becomes standard on cars. Already, it's shipping on almost all high-end cars and 70-80% of midrange cars. There's a US auto industry goal of it being standard by 2022. That's probably the main feature needed for self-driving cars to coexist with human-driven cars. I really wish we could just enforce proper education of being observant. Most times…

Any solution that relies on "let's just make humans beings better" is basically doomed to failure and little more than hand wringing and virtue signalling. Cars have been pervasive for over a century and virtually none of the actual improvements in safety have come from "hoping humans do better".

>Cars have been pervasive for over a century and virtually none of the actual improvements in safety have come from "hoping humans do better".

Improvements to signage and traffic controls, cracking down on reckless and intoxicated driving and the massive campaign to get people to actually wear their seat-belts (listed in no particular order) seem to fall solidly in the "make humans do better" category.

Re: Replaying real life: how the Waymo Driver avoids fatal human crashes

#138
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Germany. We have some roundabouts. And let me tell you: they rarely work better than red lights. Traffic flow requires more than roundabouts. They require proper planning, green waves, proper sizing and still different lanes for roundabouts. Don’t forget about semis either. Just throwing roundabouts somewhere won’t solve anything. I’ve seen that often enough. That will just create more traffic jams.

The literature says differently, and is also aware of your opinion. https://www.safetylit.org/citations/index.php?fuseaction=cit...

Undersized roundabouts with 1 lane are not fitting for certain places. As said, I have seen many traffic lights being replaced with roundabouts. If you go to the Netherlands you see how roundabouts are executed well. Also Denmark has well made roundabouts.

Just putting a small roundabout somewhere without putting thought into it is making things considerably worse.

Re: Replaying real life: how the Waymo Driver avoids fatal human crashes

#139
post #18

You can read the California DMV's set of autonomous vehicle accident reports.[1] Almost all the Waymo reports are "vehicle was entering intersection, detected cross traffic, stopped, was rear-ended by human driver". There's one Waymo report where someone ran a stop sign and hit them. The rear-ending problem will be solved as automatic emergency braking becomes standard on cars. Already, it's shipping on almost all hi…

> The rear-ending problem will be solved as automatic emergency braking becomes standard on cars. Already, it's shipping on almost all high-end cars and 70-80% of midrange cars. There's a US auto industry goal of it being standard by 2022. That's probably the main feature needed for self-driving cars to coexist with human-driven cars.

Not necessarily. I have a Honda, and the system in my car is deliberately designed to only mitigate a collision, not prevent one (e.g. it will only engage at the last second to slow the car, not stop it). I'm speculating, but I'm guessing the idea is to discourage people from "testing it out" or relying too much on it.

Re: Replaying real life: how the Waymo Driver avoids fatal human crashes

#140
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop thinking that one can know how “the states” are from a distance. The US is quite large and diverse. I’ve lived in four states and they were each significantly different in terms of legal structures, policies, culture, daily life etc. As an American I would rarely claim to know how things are in “the states.” I only know the parts I’ve lived in, or the few things that are actually federal in nature. The US…

As someone who has had a driver's license in the US for a very long time, my experience is that--as with many things--one of the main things that makes you a better driver is putting in hours driving. Could you move more of those hours into a supervised learning environment? Probably. But you do that at the cost of making getting a license more difficult, expensive, and exclusive (in an environment where driving is o…

> I'm not sure how "more expensive training" eliminates some people texting while driving.

You can do and the other. It's not about eliminating. If someone is great at something that doesn't mean that they're good at teaching that skill. Further, just because someone drove for a long time doesn't mean they're a good driver. Likely they've improved, but it hasn't been checked.

When I got my license I learned about a lot of changes that older drivers weren't aware of.

> But you do that at the cost of making getting a license more difficult, expensive, and exclusive

A country can change their car reliance. It's also strange to focus on the cost of the license, while not checking if better drivers would result in lower costs elsewhere. E.g. reduced accidents (lower insurance), less medical costs, etc.

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