Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Year at Google Brain (2020)

debugmind.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 105 posts

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#71

Post by kevincox »

dougb5 wrote: post #54

> [Sundar Pichai] has emphasized that Google is an “AI-first” company Maybe I need to lighten up here, but I find this "AI-first" branding to be really off-putting. What I fear it means is "We're going to add the world's biases and a bit more unpredictability into every single one of our features." And in some ways it's like like a carpenter deciding to become a "wrench-first" operation. Shouldn't the first priority…

Your conclusion isn't wrong, but I think you are thinking about it the wrong way.

"AI-first" isn't because Sundar thinks that AI is the best solution for Google's problems. "AI-first" is because Sundar thinks that getting good at AI is an important long-term investment for Google.

So this is less like a carpenter deciding to use a wrench for every operation because they think that the results will be good and more like a carpenter deciding that they should find a project to use a wrench on because they want to learn how to use one.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#72

Post by [deleted] »

dougb5 wrote: post #54

> [Sundar Pichai] has emphasized that Google is an “AI-first” company Maybe I need to lighten up here, but I find this "AI-first" branding to be really off-putting. What I fear it means is "We're going to add the world's biases and a bit more unpredictability into every single one of our features." And in some ways it's like like a carpenter deciding to become a "wrench-first" operation. Shouldn't the first priority…

[deleted]

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#73

Post by betterunix2 »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #35
throwawaygh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an important reality to understand. I did my PhD in an in-demand field at a top uni. My partner did their PhD in a less in-demand field at a not so top uni. The difference in our experiences -- and how those experiences were directly impacted by the financial motivations of the department/university -- was beyond staggering. My partner was cheap teaching labor. I was a source of fellowship+grant money and potent…

What does one do if we've been deemed not good enough for top schools or institutions?

Having started at a lower ranked school and ended at a higher ranked school, I can give you the following advice (which mostly applies to technical fields). First, do not fall into the trap of thinking that where you get your PhD, or whether you get your PhD, is some kind of indication of your worth. What matters is the quality of your work. People at top schools can do mediocre research, and people at low-ranked schools can change an entire field. Do the best research work you can do; nobody is going to care where the work was done.

Second, set expectations with your advisor -- you are not there to further your advisor's career, you are pursuing your own career goals and are not just cheap labor. If you start doing random tasks that your advisor needs done, tasks that are not related to your own research, you will find yourself doing those tasks all the time. It is like any other job, you need to make it clear that you are not going to work outside of your role.

Finally, and most important of all, keep your dignity and remember that you can always take a more satisfying job (for better pay). Make sure you pick up a master's degree ~2 years into the PhD program, it helps if you want to leave. You should never feel like you are trapped; years spent in a PhD program will count as years of relevant employment at most tech companies (at least those I am familiar with). The only reason you need a PhD is if you want a tenure track position, and you should know that junior faculty face a new lineup of BS as they work towards tenure.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#74

Post by throw14082020 »

ramraj07 wrote: post #3

Great post. An interesting aphorism I used to spout was “to never listen to a first year PhD student sing praise of their PhD experience.” Though that was aimed at commodity phd students in regular universities not at people who can just choose to work at Google Brain if they feel like it. But ignoring that one persons warning about PhD still sounded like he had the typical arrogance contained by every person who eve…

Lets put it in context:

>In fact, most of my mentors at Brain encouraged me to enroll in the PhD program. Only one researcher strongly discouraged me from pursuing a PhD, comparing the experience to “psychological torture.” I was so shocked by his dark warning that I didn’t ask any follow-up questions, he didn’t elaborate, and our meeting ended shortly afterwards.

What he did was discounted the unpopular and negative opinion because it was so polarising: “psychological torture”.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#75

Post by betterunix2 »

throwawaygh wrote: post #32
Waterluvian wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>aimed at commodity phd students in regular universities Woof.

It's an important reality to understand. I did my PhD in an in-demand field at a top uni. My partner did their PhD in a less in-demand field at a not so top uni. The difference in our experiences -- and how those experiences were directly impacted by the financial motivations of the department/university -- was beyond staggering. My partner was cheap teaching labor. I was a source of fellowship+grant money and potent…

"I could leave and 10x my salary with a single email (ultimately did). My partner would've been lucky to teach high school."

That has more to do with the field than the school. A CS grad student at a third-tier school can leave and take a well-compensated corporate job whenever they want. A history grad student at a top-tier school will find that more difficult.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#76

Post by andreilys »

ubercore wrote: post #28
snejad123 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head: When paired with a robotic medium, we'll be able to automate most pattern driven jobs like construction, welding, surgery, anything really that doesn't require human element to it and is more of a pattern matching behavior. This is extremely revolutionary and will put a ton of people out of work. Any pattern-dependent job that does not require human interaction will be at risk, even coding (as…

This is a wildly optimistic take on what AI can accomplish, and a misunderstanding of the difficulties in all those tasks. If AI can do the first set of jobs, it will be able to replace sales people, cops, and lawyers too. But there's nothing, yet, to indicate that there isn't a wide gulf between the current state of the art and the kind of generalized intelligence you're talking about.

I mean it can already replace certain tasks done by sales people, cops and lawyers.

Three lawyers with the right set of tools (e.g. for discovery, writing legal briefs, etc.) can be more productive than twenty lawyers.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#77

Post by aroundtown »

I'm always a little skeptical of someone who gets all their degrees from the same university, even it it is Stanford. They aren't exposed to as diverse of a group of thoughts and ideas as someone who goes else where and proves themselves to other people with differing opinions.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#78

Post by throwawaygh »

drivebycomment wrote: post #47
throwawaygh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an important reality to understand. I did my PhD in an in-demand field at a top uni. My partner did their PhD in a less in-demand field at a not so top uni. The difference in our experiences -- and how those experiences were directly impacted by the financial motivations of the department/university -- was beyond staggering. My partner was cheap teaching labor. I was a source of fellowship+grant money and potent…

> Academia is no longer sheltered from the shitty labor politics of finance capitalism. It never was. And politics in general, not just labor.

I think prior to the 2000s academia was much less MBAified than it is now.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#79

Post by itisit »

killtimeatwork wrote: post #70
dougb5 wrote: post #54

> [Sundar Pichai] has emphasized that Google is an “AI-first” company Maybe I need to lighten up here, but I find this "AI-first" branding to be really off-putting. What I fear it means is "We're going to add the world's biases and a bit more unpredictability into every single one of our features." And in some ways it's like like a carpenter deciding to become a "wrench-first" operation. Shouldn't the first priority…

It reminds me of my managers talking about "focusing on moving to the cloud", without any real analysis whether it makes sense from technical or cost standpoint. It's purely hype driven.

Because it's the future and HBR (or some such "authority") told them so.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#80

Post by haskellandchill »

rurounijones wrote: post #56
dougb5 wrote: post #54

> [Sundar Pichai] has emphasized that Google is an “AI-first” company Maybe I need to lighten up here, but I find this "AI-first" branding to be really off-putting. What I fear it means is "We're going to add the world's biases and a bit more unpredictability into every single one of our features." And in some ways it's like like a carpenter deciding to become a "wrench-first" operation. Shouldn't the first priority…

> I find this "AI-first" branding to be really off-putting Honestly my first reaction was a snarky "Well, your moderation and support channels certainly are" given all the horror stories we hear about people getting locked out of their entire google accounts with no recourse or access to humans to appeal / investigate.

I kind of love how google has destroyed their reputation on the customer support side and doesn't seem to care. I believe at a certain point it will affect their bottom line. They must be betting that they develop passable AI support before that happens.
Post reply on HN