Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free • Hacker News Board

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#51

Post by el-salvador » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

agustif wrote: post #4

alexf95 wrote: post #2

Ok but what if I wanted to shop without a smartphone, or don't own one? Don't get me wrong this is great for the current situation but like all things it doesn't only have good things about it.

Yesterday on Spanish local tv show they showed how in a small rural town without banks / ATM's, a pharmacy dubbed as a bank / cash retrieval service in a rural town... In another town the banks shared an office and each day of the week was for one of the banks to recieve customers lol. WeBank Could have the same but backwards, give cash, recieve e-coupon, scan e-coupon in store.

The first example is very common in El Salvador too.

The largest store in every town is usually a "financial correspondent" of one or more banks.

The services available are: Remmitance sending/receiving, deposit and withdrawal using bank card, credit card payments, service payments (Eelctricity, Phone, University), service withdrawal, (Drive sharing driver withdrawals), among others.

The tricky part for banks and businesses is offering services with similar deposit/withdrawal amounts so cash is always available without having to organize cash delivery to/from the bank correspondent.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#52

Post by rgrieselhuber » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

m12k wrote: post #43

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s assuming that efficiency is the only thing we should care about in society.

Efficiency is the reason we can have this conversation instead of standing out in a field, manually trying to coax a living out of the unforgiving soil every day. Efficiency isn't the goal, but it's one of the best tools we have for improving what a human life can be - like for example giving us enough leisure time to be able to read, have hobbies, do art or spend more time with loved ones.

There's nothing wrong with efficiency and it provides a lot of benefits, as you say. But the efficiency argument is also used to knock out local businesses in favor of big box stores and so on. Everybody likes efficiency but we should be wary of using that as the only way to measure outcomes.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#53

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

m12k wrote: post #49

aloisdg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use statistics to determine what can of stock you should favor (e.g. winter clothes vs summer clothes) and the quantity (more Christmas food in December less after). If you have enough data from previous years or a good heuristics, you can start this one easily. Even a plain old markov chains could help.

I'm stunned that week after week, I'll come across the same shelf, with one variant of a thing sold out by midweek, and the unpopular variant next to it virtually untouched, as always. The amount of statistics or programming required to prevent this, and balance the stock to what the market shows that it wants, is fairly trivial, and yet my local supermarket has failed to do so for several decades now.

I had a good chuckle in March of last year when I realized the shelves had plenty of "all natural, non-toxic cleaner" sort of products during the run on Clorox wipes and bleach.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#54

Post by lbhdc » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

konschubert wrote: post #46

So this is basically run on a trust basis, right? And if you steal, you will eventually get caught on video and be blocked from entering the store? I can imagine this working well in small villages. You'll get a few thieves and vandals, but eventually you can weed them out. Pretty genius.

Not quite. They have your ID and banking information when you enter.

  You open the doors using the company's app, which works in conjunction with BankID, a secure national identification app operated by Sweden's banks.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#55

Post by adamcstephens » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #13

adamcstephens wrote: post #3

So how will the people who would have worked in a shop like this, afford to shop for food? In Sweden this probably isn’t as big of an issue, but not every country is as socially conscious.

Broken window fallacy argument - we can’t artificially keep doing demonstrably less efficient things for the sake of jobs, it has never worked and never will. If it becomes a problem then we have to deal with it by finding new avenues to employ people or not need employment to live a life.

Straw man argument - I didn’t say we have to pay people to do this, but today you have to be paid to eat. I’m all for eliminating the requirement for work to live.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#56

Post by el-salvador » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

cr3ative wrote: post #6

alexf95 wrote: post #2

Ok but what if I wanted to shop without a smartphone, or don't own one? Don't get me wrong this is great for the current situation but like all things it doesn't only have good things about it.

Many shops have a barrier/qualification to entry; membership at Costco for example. Smartphones are now cheap as dirt. The bigger problem would be having a bank account.

A Swedish bank account with Swedish Bank ID.

Do they have a work around for non Swedish users?

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#57

Post by bellyfullofbac » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

konschubert wrote: post #46

So this is basically run on a trust basis, right? And if you steal, you will eventually get caught on video and be blocked from entering the store? I can imagine this working well in small villages. You'll get a few thieves and vandals, but eventually you can weed them out. Pretty genius.

And you have to scan your bank card (which apparently in Sweden is a secondary ID card) to enter. I wonder if they do an extra verification to make sure you just didn't steal someone's card, maybe with a PIN?

Hah, I guess for the vandals, being blacklisted by the network would be a big hassle...

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#58

Post by bopbeepboop » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

m12k wrote: post #43

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s assuming that efficiency is the only thing we should care about in society.

Efficiency is the reason we can have this conversation instead of standing out in a field, manually trying to coax a living out of the unforgiving soil every day. Efficiency isn't the goal, but it's one of the best tools we have for improving what a human life can be - like for example giving us enough leisure time to be able to read, have hobbies, do art or spend more time with loved ones.

> for example giving us enough leisure time to be able to read, have hobbies, do art or spend more time with loved ones

Do you have a citation we do more of that now than in agrarian societies?

My impression was the opposite:

We have more creature comforts, and exert less physical activity, but actually do all of those things less as well for “efficiency” reasons.

A rough analysis suggests that chimps have as much or more leisure time than I do and spend more time with their families than I do, on a daily basis.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#59

Post by konschubert » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

lbhdc wrote: post #54

konschubert wrote: post #46

So this is basically run on a trust basis, right? And if you steal, you will eventually get caught on video and be blocked from entering the store? I can imagine this working well in small villages. You'll get a few thieves and vandals, but eventually you can weed them out. Pretty genius.

Not quite. They have your ID and banking information when you enter. You open the doors using the company's app, which works in conjunction with BankID, a secure national identification app operated by Sweden's banks.

Of course they have a way to identify you and prevent you from signing up again under another name.

How else are they going to block you?

But just because they have your BankID it doesn't mean that they have your account balance or other banking data, if that's what you're referring to.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#60

Post by eCa » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

konschubert wrote: post #46

So this is basically run on a trust basis, right? And if you steal, you will eventually get caught on video and be blocked from entering the store? I can imagine this working well in small villages. You'll get a few thieves and vandals, but eventually you can weed them out. Pretty genius.

> So this is basically run on a trust basis, right?

No, from the OP: > works in conjunction with BankID, a secure national identification app operated by Sweden's banks

You are identified, so it should be easy to see on camera who steals and then they can send the cops on you.

My worry is more about tourists[1]. As someone who has travelled extensively in rural Europe I would not appreciate a growing network of stores that requires country-specific id.

[1] Technologically disadvantaged people are already mentioned in the article.