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Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

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Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#391

Post by dang »

nimchimpsky wrote: post #220
dang wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post like this—it does nothing to help, and you're just stoking a flamewar, guaranteed to get dumber and nastier as it gets going, with this flamebait and name-calling. The way to help is to let us know. We don't come close to seeing everything. The way to let us know is by emailing hn@ycombinator.com, as the site guidelines say. Fortunately another user followed them and did so. https://news.ycombinator…

the flamewar was started by the post being flagged, your post is patronising.

Feeding flamewar is not ok, regardless of the provocation.

It always feels like the other person started it anyhow (and that they did worse); that's the recipe for a downward spiral.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#392

Post by refurb »

silly-silly wrote: post #378
refurb wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not binary. Sure, there are elements of being human that transcend racial, ethic and cultural differences, but there aspects that are difficult to understand if you didn't grow up in that culture or have extensive exposure.

Understanding is a thought process, not a genetic or environmental one.

Sure, but think as much as you want you can't necessarily understand 100% what someone is experiencing.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#393

Post by yazfield »

II2II wrote: post #235
sidlls wrote: post #192

"I believe everyone can become a good professional as long as they’re willing to learn." This isn't sexist. I've been told this, and I've told this to junior engineers of both genders. It's not even just a stretch to claim it's sexist, it's ridiculous to. The remark about prioritizing is actually more troublesome, and entirely independent of this comment. "Some things went well, others not so well. I am not giving yo…

The "willing to learn" case was construed as sexist since she was a diversity hire who did not undergo the same hiring process as her colleagues. While the double standard may have given her an advantage in being hired, it was a disadvantage with respect to her future prospects. The company did not know how to utilize her strengths nor what weaknesses had to be addressed. In effect, they abdicated responsibility for…

Well nobody respects diversity hires because they weren't put to the test at the same standards. It's like getting a job because your parents are wealthy, people don't respect those. That is until they prove themselves somehow, if the stigma sticks after that then it might be sexist/racist...ist.

Personally I believe these "quotas" systems hurt more than they help, if you don't subject people to the same high standard test they don't improve, because they don't have technical challenges to overcome. That's why I never participate in them

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#394

Post by jimbob45 »

kstrauser wrote: post #217
jimbob45 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both whites and blacks get bullied the same amount but when it happens to a black person, it’s racism and is actually taken seriously. I get called dipshit and you get called the N-word. Why race-based bullying has suddenly become considered worse is beyond me.

You honestly don't see the difference? Like, you can't think of any historical reasons why the n-word might carry a lot more weight than "dipshit"?

Name-calling is name-calling. If the mere act of calling you a word makes you shake with anger, then the “sticks and stones” lessons needs to be re-learned.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#395

Post by oji0hub »

About this quote:

> “Boys are just predisposed for technology by nature, and there is nothing we can do. I see it in my children: While my son prefers video games, my daughter only cares about Facebook.”

We can see that adult women and men make different choices. We can go back in time and see they made different choices as teenagers and young adult when on average they chose to study different things. In the example above, her children make different choices as children.

A counter argument might be that different toys are targeted at girls and boys. It sounds like a possible explanation, but could it be that the reason different toys are targeted at girls and boys is because of different preferences? If there is demand, someone will deliver the supply.

If we take another step back in time and look at infants, we get the answer. Show newly born infants things and faces and the boys are more interested in the things and the girls are more interested in the faces (people).

So yes, there is an average difference in interest - not a difference in intelligence or ability, but in interest.

There is also plenty of overlap. Many women and men are interested in the same things. Some women are very interested in technology. Some men are very interested in people. But on average, there is a significant difference.

Is this a problem?

Only if we consider the typical male preference for technology to be better or superior than the typical female preference for people. This is where the real problem lies.

Men and women are, on average, different. Let's appreciate our differences.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#396

Post by cambaceres »

Point 1 and 2 shows why hiring based on gender instead of merit is a bad idea. It would have been way better for the author of this post to have been turned down by the diversity seekers and found a company that was looking for someone with her skillset and personality instead.

Point 3 is such a stupid thing to say. I don't know about reporting him for it, how about just telling him that he is stupid and condescending? That would work in Sweden at least, maybe there is a different work culture in USA.

Point 4 is actually true, proved scienctifically, and has nothing to do with discrimination. Due to differences in the brain that we are born with, men are on average more interested in technology than women. That does not mean that you can point to a specific women and draw the conclusion that because she is a women she is less suited to work in tech than a man. It does however explain why more men than female study computer science for example. Yes, I'm sure phenomens like computer games biased towards male might enhance this, but even without it you would see the differences.

Before you downvote me because I'm a sexist, please have a look here:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-mens-brains-a...

https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-...

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#397

Post by midasz »

kvetching wrote: post #166
SavantIdiot wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an example of a non-diverse company that doesn't understand diversity trying to implement some kind of diversity. I recall these kinds of ham-fisted attempts everywhere in the late 90's. Ironically, this was most likely cringe because there were no minorities on the staff, a consequence of: no diversity. I observed a similar event in the early 90's when a bunch of white folk in HR tried to show off diversity…

It's sickening that a white man doesn't have a chance at any of the big companies, unless he's a programming god. This makes white supremacy even more of a problem because the white people that are there, are some of the best ever.

I'm as white as it gets. Blonde, blue eyes, and I've never had a problem getting a job. This victim complex is based on nothing but disinformation from alt-right actors. We're not the victims, not in any way. Just because people are trying to make opportunities more equal doesn't mean we are suddenly oppressed.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#398

Post by david38 »

nzmsv wrote: post #229
conception wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem very upset that IBM is trying to give jobs to a group that has had a persistent lack of opportunity. Congrats that you’re rich and well connected, but you’re exceptional in this regard.

Isn't it a bit weird to have someone who is not Native American (you) tell an actual Native American how they should feel and what kind of experiences they are supposed to have had? I would guess that the subset of Native Americans who have a chance of getting the IBM job are more like the OP and less like the ones you are picturing. But no, instead it's "how dare you think our cringeworthy efforts to make you feel i…

This happens to me all the time. I’m from Central America and am constantly told about the plight of “brown people” south of the border. I’m reminded how hard working “they” are, and various other saintly qualities. It’s as if we are children where everything good about us is because of who we are and everything bad is because of white people (the adults) either directly or by proxy.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#399

Post by higerordermap »

cambaceres wrote: post #396

Point 1 and 2 shows why hiring based on gender instead of merit is a bad idea. It would have been way better for the author of this post to have been turned down by the diversity seekers and found a company that was looking for someone with her skillset and personality instead. Point 3 is such a stupid thing to say. I don't know about reporting him for it, how about just telling him that he is stupid and condescendin…

Unfortunately, today's radfem crowd quotes science only when it fits their agenda.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#400

Post by johnfn »

ipaddr wrote: post #149
munificent wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this sounds horribly cringe-inducing and I don't fault you at all for walking away from IBM. At the same time, I can't help but look at this from an iterated organizational perspective. Let's say you had taken the offer at IBM. Next year, IBM does the recruiting event. But this time they have a Native American employee, you, that they can talk to about how to reach out to that group. So it's a little less awkw…

Just hire based on skill / experience and don't not hire someone because they are a minority. Basic fair hiring goes a long way. If you want more diverse candidates advertise in more diverse places. To go through some cringe-inducing ordeal is not helpful. People want to be judged based on their skills not skin / gender.

I think the point is that IBM believed they were hiring based purely on skill and experience. Then they realized they weren't hiring any native americans. And they figured that the best way to address that would be to hire some.
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