> The problems of public infrastructure are not money. The problems of American public infrastructure are exactly money, which is to say, the differences in funding capital projects versus funding maintenance. Forget public toilets for a second - one of the reasons why America's roads and bridges are falling apart is because they were built with Federal dollars, but no Federal provision was made for their maintenance…
Do you have any actual data to show that our roads and bridges are falling apart? Where I live the potholes get filled and none of our bridges have collapsed.
Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm
91–100 of 119 posts
Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm
#92I don't want to seem too accusatory, but this just felt like an angry rant without much research. I've been to a few places on this earth, and while I know there are some Europeans who'll proudly talk about how paying for toilets helps keep them clean, I haven't noticed them being any better than gas station bathrooms in the US. Some are okay, some are total disaster sites. The only difference is someone or a machine…
I don't think I've ever seen a public toilet in China that flushes properly. Only those in malls in richer areas. One time, I went into a train station cubicle, looked down and saw that all the cubicles shared one channel to do your business in, and as expected, no water was passing through to wash anything away. China does not do decently in regards to toilets.
Your pretty gross example covers all the toilets on several university campuses I've been to as well. Very common
They s shaped pipe hasn't been invented there yet (things may have changed in the past ten years though, but certainly not all bathrooms have been remodeled that quickly) and so the sewage pipes regularly blast out burps of stinky poo smells into the restrooms. This happens in student dorm rooms too if you have the top tier ones that have a private toilet for the room as opposed to a huge communal one.
Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm
#93> Kristof and the Times, of course, would prefer a national infrastructure project to provide free toilets. If you've followed this over the years, you will see many efforts at government provided toilets. Costs are often hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the effort falls apart. There are some free toilets. In Chicago, the park district still had some. Without the incentive to charge a bit of money, they were typ…
> Bathrooms aren't expensive to operate as long as Read the entire article. You need to hire an attendant or someone who at least cleans regularly. That’s the major cost, especially at $15/hour minimum wage + health benefits + 3 workers per 24-hour day.
The fully burdened employee cost at $15/hr with benefits breaks even at around 1000 people per 24 hours paying $0.50. That sounds feasible to me.
Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, the toilets in Taiwan are great —- and free. They have masses of public toilets in park, along with cleaning attendants. But here is the rub —- in the US, they would be overrun with homeless (I’m not saying this is bad; just that it would be the reality) while in TW the people who are attending to them would likely be homeless were they in the US. Is part of this cultural? Yep, probably. Is part of it structural…
I believe public toilets that are "overrun by homeless" would be an improvement over pavements used by homeless because they don't have access to toilets. Perhaps we should add some showers to public toilets as well?
Totally agree with this. Everyone has to poop, if you don't give them a place to do it, it's still going to come out, and it seems people don't get this basic logic when they complain about poo on the streets of SF.
Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
China is huge and fast-developing, so generalizations are dangerous. The notorious partitionless poop trough is pretty much a thing of the past (although I have no doubt some survive), but these days at eg. major train stations or tourist sites, the average public toilet is just fine.
"Parks and urban areas across the country have toilets that are well maintained..." is referring to far more than just major train stations and tourist sites.
On my last trip before COVID happened, I crossed the country and the only truly gruesome toilet I ran into was at a Tibetan monastery. YMMV.
Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, the toilets in Taiwan are great —- and free. They have masses of public toilets in park, along with cleaning attendants. But here is the rub —- in the US, they would be overrun with homeless (I’m not saying this is bad; just that it would be the reality) while in TW the people who are attending to them would likely be homeless were they in the US. Is part of this cultural? Yep, probably. Is part of it structural…
I don't understand this argument in American politics ("If we build something nice, those no good poor people will just ruin it!") and I especially don't understand it in this context. Unless my memory is far worse than I imagined, there are free toilets everywhere in the US (not so much now with COVID restrictions) and they're not all overrun with homeless. Have you never been to a public beach?
> there are free toilets everywhere in the US
Really? I mean, if you're at an indoor venue like a Walmart or a museum, sure, but I can vouch for California being an extremely painful place to take a long walk across town. In SF every goddamn toilet in the Richmond district, Sunset district, Noe valley, Daly City, and everywhere outside the tourist hotspots are "customers only".
In LA it's even worse. Miles of streets even in the poshest neighborhoods with zero toilets. Once had to ask my GF to get access to a restaurant toilet and secretly let me in because if you're male they're usually for "customers only" but if you're female you get to use them.
Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm
#97I don't want to seem too accusatory, but this just felt like an angry rant without much research. I've been to a few places on this earth, and while I know there are some Europeans who'll proudly talk about how paying for toilets helps keep them clean, I haven't noticed them being any better than gas station bathrooms in the US. Some are okay, some are total disaster sites. The only difference is someone or a machine…
Yes, the toilets in Taiwan are great —- and free. They have masses of public toilets in park, along with cleaning attendants. But here is the rub —- in the US, they would be overrun with homeless (I’m not saying this is bad; just that it would be the reality) while in TW the people who are attending to them would likely be homeless were they in the US. Is part of this cultural? Yep, probably. Is part of it structural…
Have you been to Taiwan outside of Taipei? The toilet situation is pretty dreadful, with most being squat toilets in really gross conditions. Thank God for 7-11 because most of the time they have decent toilets, but if there's no convenience stores nearby you better be willing to squat. Granted, they do exist, which is obviously better than them not existing, but I think your comment reflects Taipei more than most of the island.
Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm
#98The thing that makes me pessimistic about anything free, is seeing chewing gum in the urinals. It’s obvious the gum can’t go down the drain. It’s also obvious that someone will have to take out the urine soaked gum and put it in the garbage. There is a trash can literally 5 feet away. But I still find chewing gum in the urinals. If we as a culture can’t collectively get that right, I have doubts for anything more inv…
It's almost like venerating selfishness and calling it individuality is a recipe for a society that malfunctions in some pretty key ways.
Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm
#99What fascinates me about the yanks is that they can conjure $2.13 billion per Stealth bomber and yet a toilet is too expensive.
Never underestimate our fascination with blowing shit up, nor our penchant for making sure the "wrong" people don't get access to things.
Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm
#100I’ve always felt that the advantage of pay toilets wasn’t that they were clean, it was that they exist . Walking around an American city trying to find a restroom can be extremely challenging, while in European cities I could almost always find a sign and a public restroom in short order (even outside the more touristy areas). I don’t know if there are actually more public toilets in those cities - or if the culture…
My experience has be exactly the opposite. Never struggled to find a toilet in the US. In Europe, as a tourist, no public toilets and shops display prominent sign that it is for customers only. So often I had to buy $8 coke (served flat with half an ice-cube) for the privilege to use a toilet in the basement with space no bigger than the pot itself (and the pot has no toilet seat). Just sharing a counter experience.
> Never struggled to find a toilet in the US.
On the east coast I've been able to find toilets just fine, especially with the wealth of subway stations and indoor malls and other places that typically have restrooms.
California is a hell hole though. You can walk miles across town and find zero restrooms, sometimes an occasional locked restroom, and maybe some restaurants and coffee shops whose restrooms are almost always for "customers only". It's a pity because the weather here is great for long walks. You can pee in random bushes I guess (?) but there's no place to poo.