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A Year at Google Brain (2020)

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Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#31

Post by a-dub »

akshayka wrote: post #7
SoylentOrange wrote: post #2

This is incredibly well-written and a great peek behind the curtain of industrial vs academic ML research. One question: can you elaborate a little on your point about intellectual diversity?

Sure! While Google Brain is focused specifically on AI, Stanford as a whole conducts research across a very wide range of disciplines. As a result, my network at Stanford has a more diverse collection of interests. As a PhD candidate I have worked with or am connected to people interested in neuroscience, radiation treatment planning, finance, control, economics, computer systems, and (yes) machine learning, among ot…

how much real-world collaboration do you get to do with students, postdocs and faculty in those other disciplines? (ie; what is the experience like when one does a phd in computational tools as opposed to a specific stem domain?)

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#32

Post by throwawaygh »

Waterluvian wrote: post #20
ramraj07 wrote: post #3

Great post. An interesting aphorism I used to spout was “to never listen to a first year PhD student sing praise of their PhD experience.” Though that was aimed at commodity phd students in regular universities not at people who can just choose to work at Google Brain if they feel like it. But ignoring that one persons warning about PhD still sounded like he had the typical arrogance contained by every person who eve…

>aimed at commodity phd students in regular universities Woof.

It's an important reality to understand.

I did my PhD in an in-demand field at a top uni.

My partner did their PhD in a less in-demand field at a not so top uni.

The difference in our experiences -- and how those experiences were directly impacted by the financial motivations of the department/university -- was beyond staggering. My partner was cheap teaching labor. I was a source of fellowship+grant money and potentially valuable patents/prestige. I could leave and 10x my salary with a single email (ultimately did). My partner would've been lucky to teach high school. In literally every interaction with the university, you could tell.

Universities are just another org with budget and headcount and metrics to optimize. Academia is no longer sheltered from the shitty labor politics of finance capitalism. NEVER let anyone tell you otherwise.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#33

Post by godelski »

jonas21 wrote: post #26
arduinomancer wrote: post #4

> While I’m interested in machine learning, I’m not convinced that today’s AI is anywhere near as profound as electricity or fire This seems a not too uncommon experience among CS people where machine learning loses its interest once they understand the magic

In 1850, few people felt that electricity was particularly profound either. That year, William Gladstone, Chancellor of the Exchequer, asked Michael Faraday why electricity was valuable. Faraday replied, "One day sir, you may tax it." [1]. The electric motor had been invented (by Faraday), but it couldn't do any useful work and had to sit in a pool of mercury to function. Electric lighting had been invented, but the…

Just be aware that you're using selection bias to substantiate your point here. There were many more claims along the same lines that didn't pan out as well and didn't turn out as well. I even say this as someone who believes AI/ML will change the world (though I'm with MJ on this one).

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#34

Post by akhilcacharya »

Waterluvian wrote: post #20
ramraj07 wrote: post #3

Great post. An interesting aphorism I used to spout was “to never listen to a first year PhD student sing praise of their PhD experience.” Though that was aimed at commodity phd students in regular universities not at people who can just choose to work at Google Brain if they feel like it. But ignoring that one persons warning about PhD still sounded like he had the typical arrogance contained by every person who eve…

>aimed at commodity phd students in regular universities Woof.

Yikes, jesus christ. I wonder what they think of people at "regular companies" like mine or people that graduated from "regular schools".

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#35

Post by akhilcacharya »

throwawaygh wrote: post #32
Waterluvian wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>aimed at commodity phd students in regular universities Woof.

It's an important reality to understand. I did my PhD in an in-demand field at a top uni. My partner did their PhD in a less in-demand field at a not so top uni. The difference in our experiences -- and how those experiences were directly impacted by the financial motivations of the department/university -- was beyond staggering. My partner was cheap teaching labor. I was a source of fellowship+grant money and potent…

What does one do if we've been deemed not good enough for top schools or institutions?

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#36

Post by throwawaygh »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #35
throwawaygh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an important reality to understand. I did my PhD in an in-demand field at a top uni. My partner did their PhD in a less in-demand field at a not so top uni. The difference in our experiences -- and how those experiences were directly impacted by the financial motivations of the department/university -- was beyond staggering. My partner was cheap teaching labor. I was a source of fellowship+grant money and potent…

What does one do if we've been deemed not good enough for top schools or institutions?

Can you get a great advisor at a mid-tier place and a strong guarantee that you won't have to TA a ton? If not, opt out of academia.

I had a half dozen tenure-track offers and decided on industry. Honestly, academia is not what it used to be. Lots of professors come close to killing their under-paid grad students so that they can spend 20% of their time on blue sky research ideas. I get that time and then some without throwing poor kids under the bus. Without even asking, really. And make 3x what I would've made as a slave driver to boot.

Academia sucks, especially if you want to do good research. Seriously, outside of tippy-top elite institutions that can get the very best and brightest phd students, colleges and universities are some of the absolute worst places to do research these days.

And if you want to teach CS, don't bother with a PhD. Just ad junct a bit on the side of an industry gig, do not-insanely-bad, and you'll be full time within a year or two. If you want. Which you very likely wont, because teaching one class on the side while engineering is a lot more fun than teaching full time. Teaching is exhausting, even for people who love teaching.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#37

Post by inakarmacoma »

JCDenton2052 wrote: post #25

Of particular note: "Google’s CEO Sundar Pichai (who believes AI is “more profound than electricity or fire”) has emphasized that Google is an “AI-first” company, with the company seeking to implement machine learning in nearly everything do" Nearly everything they do with your data.

Not sure if a part of your post got cut off? As framed, it seems rather inflammatory without much direction or practical addition to the conversation. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#38

Post by snejad123 »

ubercore wrote: post #28
snejad123 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head: When paired with a robotic medium, we'll be able to automate most pattern driven jobs like construction, welding, surgery, anything really that doesn't require human element to it and is more of a pattern matching behavior. This is extremely revolutionary and will put a ton of people out of work. Any pattern-dependent job that does not require human interaction will be at risk, even coding (as…

This is a wildly optimistic take on what AI can accomplish, and a misunderstanding of the difficulties in all those tasks. If AI can do the first set of jobs, it will be able to replace sales people, cops, and lawyers too. But there's nothing, yet, to indicate that there isn't a wide gulf between the current state of the art and the kind of generalized intelligence you're talking about.

Yes but for jobs that require emotion like sales, the current Neural Network paradigm is just not gonna cut it. I am never buying from a robot, it’s missing an element of the mind that we still haven’t even categorized the biological side of, even if it sounds like a “real person”.

The state of the art of today’s DNN, I agree, is far away. But the peak of today’s architecture is yes, replacing construction, welding, and surgery. Those actually might happen quickly.

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#39

Post by [deleted] »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #30
supersereneblue wrote: post #6

I have nothing of value to add except that seeing someone do what they love and enjoy, greatly warms my heart. Good luck with everything Akshay!!

Really? If anything it makes me really angry. I generally despise seeing people happy, especially people that have gotten everything in life (as someone that has definitely not ). What an interesting way to view the world...

[deleted]

Re: A Year at Google Brain (2020)

#40

Post by paganel »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #35
throwawaygh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an important reality to understand. I did my PhD in an in-demand field at a top uni. My partner did their PhD in a less in-demand field at a not so top uni. The difference in our experiences -- and how those experiences were directly impacted by the financial motivations of the department/university -- was beyond staggering. My partner was cheap teaching labor. I was a source of fellowship+grant money and potent…

What does one do if we've been deemed not good enough for top schools or institutions?

We try to make “not attending top schools” not as important. We most often fail in doing that, of course, but the thought at least should be there.
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