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Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

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Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#351

Post by mc32 »

alienthrowaway wrote: post #334
pacman2 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure mate. Yes, some things you mention sound annoying and insulting but still. You are an immigrant to the US, got a non US education, you got a job in Silicon Valley and you made it. Honestly, I feel like I received more discrimination as a white, western European in the US than you did. When I was still working in a university lab in the US, it was extremely diverse, with a strong bias/over-representation…

> Honestly, I feel like I received more discrimination as a white, western European in the US than you did. What is the point of bringing this up - is this thread the oppression olympics/"Four Yorkshiremen" of discrimination? Do I have a bit for you: White, western European, you say? Try being an immigrant as a black, African in tech - I'm sure I had it worse than you, at least you people assume you had electricity g…

>I'm sure I had it worse than you, at least you people assume you had electricity growing up.

Are there not times that cityfolk don't rib countryfolk about growing up in poorer conditions in almost any country? Not to say it's right. But I also think I'm not mistaken in thinking people back home have misconceptions about people in the US as well. Misconceptions are pretty universal.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#352

Post by LimaBearz »

Alright I have to share. I’m brownish and never I think encountered racism. As for the women I’ve had the pleasure of working with they’ve have all been an absolute joy to work with, with the exception of one. They’re in a male dominated field and I suspect they know and work to compensate against it. I bet it must suck for them honestly to live with that pressure but as their peer its made them exceptionally competent and professional. I’d work again with them anytime enthusiastically (which is rare)

The one woman I worked with that didn’t end up so well was an engineer, who when she decided she wanted to move on with her career developed a standard playbook of falsely claiming sexual harassment against an executive and walk away with a nice check in hand. Done to every employers she’s ever worked with including a few FAANGs.

On a more related note about this article, I got lost on the cultural termination. I didn’t hear discrimination. I heard bad hiring practice, probably by people who don’t have a lot experience hiring. If they were smart after that term they updated their hiring practices. That’s why some startups invite you to lunch or an outing.. to avoid those issues.

As a new founder having accusations like this terrify me of hiring in general. It’s different when it’s yours and not just a cog in a machine

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#353

Post by robin21 »

arp242 wrote: post #310
entee wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, this is the wrong way to look at the problem. It’s true, objectively, that there are fewer minority/female CS graduates. But there’s no way that gets better if a person who is “not a subject matter expert” gets dismissed. That person needs to be trained. If they want to be expert at that subject, we as an industry need to be able to help them get there. Increasingly I believe the problem with diversity…

> If you’re a woman and you want to be a coder but all you hear about is hell stories, why would you sign up for that major I think this is a bit more complex; think of something like Revenge of the Nerds where computer peeps are all socially inept (sometimes borderline creepy) otherworldly nerds whose only interest in life is computers. Would you want to work in an environment like that? I wouldn't. And luckily I do…

There are a lot of socially enept developers out there. Maybe it’s changed a bit recently. But if you think about taking your average developer and putting them in a propel-facing sales role, how well would they do?

Something you see often is developers who were bullied at school, finding refuge in their computer, finding something they enjoy, and then the feminists canceling them because they don’t have the social skills to understand all the new rules of what is not politically correct. E.g. James Damore - the fired Google guy - was just quoting scientific evidence regarding women in tech but without realizing the sensitivities of 2010+ and that some things are better left unsaid. This is simply a lack of social awareness, and now the nerds and re-bullied day in day out because they started making lots of money.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#354

Post by beams »

Appreciate the write up with specific examples. I haven’t been discriminated against at work (that I’m aware of) and try very, very hard to avoid it (though I’m sure I have failed unknowingly). This helps remind me of how it can happen whether intentional or not.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#355

Post by dragonwriter »

betwixthewires wrote: post #325
f154hfds wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'The Case For Color Blindness' by Coleman Hughes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_hRr5J9UUc I was sort of raised to believe 'Color blindness' was the right approach to take. It wasn't until the last couple years that I realized there was significant push back to the philosophy.

Most of us were raised that way. This phenomenon of everything being about what color you are is relatively new and orders of magnitude more controversial than its pushers like to admit.

> This phenomenon of everything being about what color you are is relatively new

If by “is relatively new” you mean “very briefly receded before returning”, sure. The whole “we are living in a post-racial society” thing was trendy for about the second half of 00s, but fell apart fairly rapidly in the early 2010s.i

> and orders of magnitude more controversial than its pushers like to admit.

No one, anywhere, disputes that it's controversial, and always had been; what has changed notably, though, is the degree to which the divide had become much more aligned with the partisan divide than it had ever been in the past.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#356

Post by [deleted] »

asdff wrote: post #271
worker767424 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hiring more black people It's not like there's a large, untapped pool of talented black software engineers. I'm at a large tech company. There was a team I worked with for a big with some really talented people, the sort of team where really smart domain experts go. There was a black guy on it who asked questions showing he wasn't an obviously talented domain expert. I found out he was recruited for coming from an…

On the other hand, California is 37% white. The University of California freshman class for 2019 was 22% white. So why are tech companies so strikingly white? It makes no sense unless you admit there is a racial bias in the hiring process for knowledge workers.

[deleted]

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#357

Post by ibudiallo »

dopidopHN wrote: post #338
entee wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, this is the wrong way to look at the problem. It’s true, objectively, that there are fewer minority/female CS graduates. But there’s no way that gets better if a person who is “not a subject matter expert” gets dismissed. That person needs to be trained. If they want to be expert at that subject, we as an industry need to be able to help them get there. Increasingly I believe the problem with diversity…

> I believe the problem with diversity in tech is a retention and training problem, not a pipeline problem. I saw one guy setting up a hiring pipeline in large industrial/tech company in the south, and changing the face of a office for that company. - When he start : The city is 60% black, almost not black dev. A few in IT/Support. - He strike a deal with a local bootcamp, being extremely specific on the training con…

Hi, I would really like to know more about this guy and his program, and maybe get in touch. My contacts are in my profile.

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#358

Post by jrnichols »

thu2111 wrote: post #204
lrem wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always do affirmative action like Google. Invite the minorities to boot camps, coaching and mentoring programmes and so on... But subject them to the regular interview process and hiring bar.

Even when I was there years ago, it was common knowledge amongst those of us who did hiring that women had an easier time in the interview process. For example, females could not fail the first phone screens. They would always be forwarded to on-site interviews regardless of earlier performance. The justification was that weak performance at the initial screens would be taken into account later by the hiring committe…

This was my experience at a tech company in the Silicon Valley about 15 years ago. Women who applied were put at the top of the stack and guaranteed an in-person interview, over all other candidates. Even if they absolutely bombed the phone screening. We did end up having one potential candidate, but she was making a huge amount at her previous job and would not 'settle' for what was our sysadmin pay scale at the time. (I can't remember the exact numbers, but she was demanding at least 50% more than the top end of our pay scale.)

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#359

Post by [deleted] »

anthony_romeo wrote: post #136
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When minorities are made "ambassadors" as though they suddenly speak for EVERYONE in their minority, it is awful, and wrong. People don't get this: "But X minority said it was OK..." No, it takes literal diversity of opinion. Which is why the entire concept of demographics-based "diversity" is such a shambles. The premise is supposed to be that if you get some women and minorities in there then you'll have a divers…

Your overall stance seems to require the assumption that “diversity on paper” is the more common/significant outcome relative to “diversity of opinion”. Do you happen to have any info which might support such an assumption?

[deleted]

Re: Four times I felt discriminated against for being a female developer

#360

Post by robin21 »

entee wrote: post #279
jimmygrapes wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does culture play no role in this? Why assume race is the primary driver?

Surely it does, a culture that makes people feel unwelcome and doesn’t invest in helping them thrive in an environment where they are in the minority definitely plays a role.

How do you explain Asians making up almost half of FAANG startups?
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