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Why I did not go to jail (2014)

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Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first thought was that "the system" is broken. It's too big and complicated. It's inhumane. And it's not just corporate tax law. Health care is a dumpster fire. Lots of overly complicated modern bureaucracies. We're not as smart as we think we are.

>We're not as smart as we think we are. We are, that's the problem. We find loopholes, we find edge cases, we bend rules to our benefit. Thus the bureaucracy must become ever more complicated to deal with our cleverness.

A loophole is just a more judgemental way of describing something you're allowed to do. Most discussion around the topic of tax loopholes revolves around entirely legal deductions. When you call something a loophole, all you're saying is "you're allowed to do this, but I personally thing that you should not be allowed to do this". Our tax system is a complicated, inscrutable mess because it was designed that way, not because it needs to be that way. You and I likely take advantage of many deduction "loopholes" that were created because creating a new deduction is less politically controversial than creating a tax cut.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#82

Wow. I left a company a few years ago that was doing this. It caused money to rain down on the employees that participated (I was one of them) but it sounded like something that was completely up to the company to do if they wanted, and certainly not illegal. We had to undergo repeated lectures and training on insider trading. I do have to admit that employees were buying because it was low and they knew that certain…

Are you talking about Employee Stock Purchase Plans? That is different from options backdating.

The company reports compensation expenses incurred via ESPP upfront.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So lying about the date, and not reporting properly was the problem not the price in and of itself. That makes much more sense.

No. The date is correct (they were issued at the end of the month), but the price chosen is the best price for the grantee. This is roughly theft from the other stockholders.

ESPP chooses the best price for the grantee. What makes that not theft?

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#84
post #75

This is one of the more important bits to be periodically reposted on HN. Compliance with the law is not 'optional', and if you cross that line there is a fair chance that it will come back to bite you. Regulated industries, stock transactions (and options, as in this bit of startup history) all have their peculiarities and you need to realize that not all of these end up with the proverbial slap on the wrist if you…

I agree with all of that, but there's also the idea that once the government decides you're guilty, they will find something. There's so many laws, and they are so complex, that's it's not hard for them to do so. So I'd add a little more to your advice to resign if asked to do something illegal. If your company, or industry, seems to be the new whipping post for some Federal agency, consider a new place. Assuming you…

As Beria, head of Stalin’s secret police said, “Show me the man and I will find you the crime.”

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ya, curious why this has to be submitted over and over

I like it. I'd love to see something about ethics, too. I feel there is a need for more ethical behavior, in today's corporate world. I have a fairly basic ethical litmus test: "If I feel like I can 'get away with it,' it's wrong." Doesn't matter, whether or not it's legal . Wrong is wrong. One of the most valuable assets in my life, is my personal sense of Integrity and Honor. It has nothing at all to do with whethe…

What if you think it's right and you think you can get away with it?

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#86
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it. I'd love to see something about ethics, too. I feel there is a need for more ethical behavior, in today's corporate world. I have a fairly basic ethical litmus test: "If I feel like I can 'get away with it,' it's wrong." Doesn't matter, whether or not it's legal . Wrong is wrong. One of the most valuable assets in my life, is my personal sense of Integrity and Honor. It has nothing at all to do with whethe…

What if you think it's right and you think you can get away with it?

[deleted]

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#87
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait till you hear how our criminal justice system treats poor people.

It seems terrible for everyone. Poor people get stuck with false accusations by the police, no bail, and public defenders who are either incompetent or overworked. Rich people (or middle class founders who dream of getting rich) get to deal with incomprehensible tax and accounting laws where no one can ever really be sure that they're compliant. Ben Horowitz had the luck to receive good legal advice and the wisdom to…

When it’s considered normal for Congress to vote for laws that they haven’t read because the laws are so verbose that it wouldn’t be practical I don’t hold out much hope for the sanity you are suggesting.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99.99%+ of people are not willing to take that 2 minutes though

And it also prevents this article from showing up in google searches for the actual name.

If you search for the actual name, you won't find this article. But you will find sec.gov (4th result for me), Reuters (5th), Wikipedia (6th), and even this very website (3rd) reporting about her conviction for securities fraud. Given that all those other sites are already posting about the event using her real name, I'm not sure this article would make much difference to the search results.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#89
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait till you hear how our criminal justice system treats poor people.

It seems terrible for everyone. Poor people get stuck with false accusations by the police, no bail, and public defenders who are either incompetent or overworked. Rich people (or middle class founders who dream of getting rich) get to deal with incomprehensible tax and accounting laws where no one can ever really be sure that they're compliant. Ben Horowitz had the luck to receive good legal advice and the wisdom to…

Just get rid of the SEC. Its an unnecessary institution.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#90
post #51
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse" is not a just principle when the laws are so numerous and incomprehensible that everyone is always ignorant of the law. Plenty of people just end up getting bad legal advice, even when they thought they were paying top dollar for a good quality law firm.

In some jurisdictions (I can only speak for Germany with some authority) if you've made a serious effort to get legal advice on a complicated topic and the legal advice was wrong this will (probably) mean that you're not guilty of a crime caused by the bad legal advice. Civil liability is a different topic obviously. (But the "probably" is there for a reason: it really does depend on the specific topic at hand and wh…

Isn't it at that point, the legal / accounting firm that gave you bad advice become liable instead?
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