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Apple’s Magnum Opus

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Re: Apple’s Magnum Opus

#11

Post by joebadmo »

tptacek wrote: post #9
joebadmo wrote: post #8

Am I the only one that thinks Apple is using revolutionary technology to work toward the perfection of a deprecated computing paradigm? I mean, yes, iCloud makes computing work like magic, but it sort of ignores what post-web computing means . Computing anymore isn't just about working on the same documents on any device that you own seamlessly (that part is, to be sure, great), it's about sharing and collaboration.…

I see your point but find it hard to accept the idea that letters to teachers, school assignments, price quotes, proposals, contracts, sales presentations, and reports are "deprecated" because the cloud enables other kinds of documents.

Deprecated was probably the wrong word. The things you cite are clearly still an important part of computing life, but it's still strange to me to use the connective tissue of the internet to enable computing, but completely ignore the actual connection part, the new part of what the web promises.

It feels a bit to me like publishing companies using the web to make their old publishing models better, instead of grappling with how the web challenges the fundamental underpinnings of their model.

Re: Apple’s Magnum Opus

#12

Post by stcredzero »

podperson wrote: post #2

I think this article pretty much nails a key part of it. What Apple wants to do is implement a seamless digital world that Just Works. (It remains to be seen whether it does in fact Just Work.) Oddly enough, you could accuse them of, once again, stealing ideas from Xerox PARC (and, once again, be redirected to Douglas Englebart et al) ... the kind of thing Apple is demonstrating with iCloud, iOS5, and Lion is essenti…

I think this article pretty much nails a key part of it. What Apple wants to do is implement a seamless digital world that Just Works...

Oddly enough, you could accuse them of, once again, stealing ideas from Xerox PARC

It's also a pragmatic vision of what a seamless Object Oriented world would look like. Steve and the Next gang went and made it work. Now they're in a position to take the computing world out of the early 1990s, just like they took it out of the 70's with Macintosh.

Re: Apple’s Magnum Opus

#13

Post by jacques_chester »

stinkytaco wrote: post #10
podperson wrote: post #2

I think this article pretty much nails a key part of it. What Apple wants to do is implement a seamless digital world that Just Works. (It remains to be seen whether it does in fact Just Work.) Oddly enough, you could accuse them of, once again, stealing ideas from Xerox PARC (and, once again, be redirected to Douglas Englebart et al) ... the kind of thing Apple is demonstrating with iCloud, iOS5, and Lion is essenti…

Isn't GNUstep working on an evolution of OpenDOC? I thought I read or heard about it once, but couldn't find much info on it. OpenDoc is something I really want to work.

No. GNUStep is an implementation of the OpenStep standard (designed by NeXT and Sun, based on NeXTStep).

OpenDoc was designed by Apple in the pre-OS X days.

Re: Apple’s Magnum Opus

#14

Post by matthew-wegner »

joebadmo wrote: post #11
tptacek wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point but find it hard to accept the idea that letters to teachers, school assignments, price quotes, proposals, contracts, sales presentations, and reports are "deprecated" because the cloud enables other kinds of documents.

Deprecated was probably the wrong word. The things you cite are clearly still an important part of computing life, but it's still strange to me to use the connective tissue of the internet to enable computing, but completely ignore the actual connection part, the new part of what the web promises. It feels a bit to me like publishing companies using the web to make their old publishing models better, instead of grapp…

Doesn't one lead to the other? What's the technical difference between allowing person to touch the same document on 4 devices, and two people touching the same document on 6 devices?

Re: Apple’s Magnum Opus

#15

Post by rayiner »

Re: the "this is how it should have always worked" comment.

I've watched my girlfriend use her computer, and this is essentially how she works. She just leaves everything open, never saving anything. She's comfortable using Expose to manage the million windows she ends up having open, but doesn't bother exiting apps when she's done with them and then starting them when she needs them again.

If she could do this and have everything always auto-save and be instantly available anywhere she went, she'd be ecstatic. And even though I grew up on the Windows 95 model of apps and documents... I gotta say I kinda see her angle. I hate that our IT policy makes us log out every night so I lose my windows. If I left for the night then came back and the cleaning person had put away all the papers on my physical desk I'd have a fit!

Re: Apple’s Magnum Opus

#16

Post by stinkytaco »

jacques_chester wrote: post #13
stinkytaco wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't GNUstep working on an evolution of OpenDOC? I thought I read or heard about it once, but couldn't find much info on it. OpenDoc is something I really want to work.

No. GNUStep is an implementation of the OpenStep standard (designed by NeXT and Sun, based on NeXTStep). OpenDoc was designed by Apple in the pre-OS X days.

After more searching I realized I'm thinking about Etoile, a GNUstep based environment that's trying to break down the document model similar to how OpenDoc tried to. It's interesting, but seems a long way from maturity.

Re: Apple’s Magnum Opus

#17

Post by joebadmo »

matthew-wegner wrote: post #14
joebadmo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deprecated was probably the wrong word. The things you cite are clearly still an important part of computing life, but it's still strange to me to use the connective tissue of the internet to enable computing, but completely ignore the actual connection part, the new part of what the web promises. It feels a bit to me like publishing companies using the web to make their old publishing models better, instead of grapp…

Doesn't one lead to the other? What's the technical difference between allowing person to touch the same document on 4 devices, and two people touching the same document on 6 devices?

I don't know what the technical differences are, but I'm not sure how that's relevant. My point is, Apple doesn't seem to be interested in enabling that. And I'm not necessarily talking about collaboration, but even just sharing. Apple has given me great ways to take, edit, store, and organize my photos, but my primary purpose for all of that is to show my photos to others. They seem to have ignored that part.

If you're implying that that's the obvious next step for them, then, great, I hope that's the case. But the only time as far as I can remember that they even made gestures toward addressing this was Ping, which was an unmitigated disaster.

Re: Apple’s Magnum Opus

#18

Post by blantonl »

Quote:

"Apple’s keynote message was loud and clear: iOS 5, Lion, and iCloud are not feature bumps — they are revolutions in how consumers are to think and use computing devices."

My emphasis above highlights an amazing observation. Per this, Apple has now crossed over the line of "what people want" to "what people need."

Re: Apple’s Magnum Opus

#19

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #15

Re: the "this is how it should have always worked" comment. I've watched my girlfriend use her computer, and this is essentially how she works. She just leaves everything open, never saving anything. She's comfortable using Expose to manage the million windows she ends up having open, but doesn't bother exiting apps when she's done with them and then starting them when she needs them again. If she could do this and h…

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s Magnum Opus

#20

Post by ImperatorLunae »

"Documents you’ve written, presentations you’ve prepared, spreadsheets you’ve made — your iWork apps can store them in iCloud. Which means you can view and edit the same document, in its latest state, on all your devices. And since iCloud automatically updates any changes you make, you don’t even have to remember to save your work."

But I already do this on Google Docs, and I don't have to buy a Mac to do it. In fact, I don't have to buy anything to do it; I already have a desktop/laptop/phone, and Google Docs is free of charge. Plus, most people I know already have Google Accounts, so sharing is already implemented.

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