Live data from Hacker News

Why I did not go to jail (2014)

a16z.com

31–40 of 151 posts

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#31

Did the PwC auditors have skin in the game? Do they have to stand by their decision when questioned or is it just a stamp of approval?

I don't think they are supposed to give you advice on how to structure it (post the Enron scandal), they are there to say it's compliant or not.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#32

White collar criminal liability in the US is absurd. Out of a political desire get the big bad rich people we have in the process turned every executive of a sufficiently complex operation into an unwitting criminal.

> Out of a political desire get the big bad rich people we have in the process turned every executive of a sufficiently complex operation into an unwitting criminal. Yet we only saw a small number of arrests come out of the 2008 housing crisis, despite widespread fraud. The few cases that were successfully prosecuted involved 9 and 10 figure fraud operations. At the core of the issues is the idea that ignorance of th…

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse" is not a just principle when the laws are so numerous and incomprehensible that everyone is always ignorant of the law. Plenty of people just end up getting bad legal advice, even when they thought they were paying top dollar for a good quality law firm.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#33

the title is "Why I Did Not Go To Jail" Does anyone understand why having employee options set a lower price would be illegal? Or is there just more details that were left out because the specifics are not necessary for the story?

Here's a good summary of the stock option backdating scandal. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/options-b... It was because the paperwork for the option grants were being written at the end of the month with a date based on the lowest price during the preceding month, a common practice at the time, but one that misrepresented when the options were actually granted, thereby enriching grantees at the e…

So lying about the date, and not reporting properly was the problem not the price in and of itself. That makes much more sense.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#34

This is one of the more important bits to be periodically reposted on HN. Compliance with the law is not 'optional', and if you cross that line there is a fair chance that it will come back to bite you. Regulated industries, stock transactions (and options, as in this bit of startup history) all have their peculiarities and you need to realize that not all of these end up with the proverbial slap on the wrist if you…

> If your boss tells you to do something that might land you in jail: resign.

Let me make it better: resign, but also take precautions, in case after your resignation, your boss offloads some guilt to you.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#36

Did the PwC auditors have skin in the game? Do they have to stand by their decision when questioned or is it just a stamp of approval?

There's an old joke / adage in Italian, which goes something like this:

A lawyer and a client are discussing an agreement. The lawyer says: here we f* them; here we f* them; here they f* you. Here also. And the client is left asking: why when we f* them it's us, and when they f* us it's just me?

This is just to say that, most likely, PwC didn't pay anything, nor any of their lawyers or consultants go to jail.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Out of a political desire get the big bad rich people we have in the process turned every executive of a sufficiently complex operation into an unwitting criminal. Yet we only saw a small number of arrests come out of the 2008 housing crisis, despite widespread fraud. The few cases that were successfully prosecuted involved 9 and 10 figure fraud operations. At the core of the issues is the idea that ignorance of th…

Ignorance of the law is indeed not an excuse. But all that means is that it’s not a legal excuse, as in it’s literally not a defense you can raise. It says nothing about the morality of criminalizing innocent conduct. Many regulatory crimes require no mens rea at all. And even more criminalize things that no reasonable person would expect to be a crime. Criminal punishment is supposed to be for despicable conduct, no…

The story in the linked article details despicable conduct.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#38

White collar criminal liability in the US is absurd. Out of a political desire get the big bad rich people we have in the process turned every executive of a sufficiently complex operation into an unwitting criminal.

There's the other end of the stick too: in many countries, where white collar crime is treated almost like a joke, both in terms of fines and jail time, you'd need to throw a shoe to a judge to get sentenced. US in general is a legal minefield with so many shades of grey. Not sure what's the ideal model but it's definitely not on either side of such stick.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#39

This is one of the more important bits to be periodically reposted on HN. Compliance with the law is not 'optional', and if you cross that line there is a fair chance that it will come back to bite you. Regulated industries, stock transactions (and options, as in this bit of startup history) all have their peculiarities and you need to realize that not all of these end up with the proverbial slap on the wrist if you…

My first thought was that "the system" is broken. It's too big and complicated. It's inhumane.

And it's not just corporate tax law. Health care is a dumpster fire. Lots of overly complicated modern bureaucracies. We're not as smart as we think we are.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#40

White collar criminal liability in the US is absurd. Out of a political desire get the big bad rich people we have in the process turned every executive of a sufficiently complex operation into an unwitting criminal.

> Out of a political desire get the big bad rich people we have in the process turned every executive of a sufficiently complex operation into an unwitting criminal. Yet we only saw a small number of arrests come out of the 2008 housing crisis, despite widespread fraud. The few cases that were successfully prosecuted involved 9 and 10 figure fraud operations. At the core of the issues is the idea that ignorance of th…

If you think you have found a legal loophole or gray area then the correct course of action is to send a letter to the responsible federal agency (like the IRS) and request a formal opinion letter as to the legality of your scheme. Once you have it in writing then you're in the clear and won't be prosecuted.
Post reply on HN