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Bitcoin network average energy consumption per transaction compared to VISA

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Re: Bitcoin network average energy consumption per transaction compared to VISA

#41
post #36

So another story about Bitcoin‘s energy consumption. Sigh. What we should really be interested in is its actual carbon foot print. You can’t just translate energy usage into CO2 emissions. These are a function of geolocation and energy efficiency of the underlying hardware. It’s actually pretty tricky to calculate that. If anybody's interested, here is a careful analysis of Bitcoin's carbon foot print (2019): https:/…

Thanks so much for that read :-)

Re: Bitcoin network average energy consumption per transaction compared to VISA

#42

It’s not really directly related. Miners load hash rate to get a better chance at the next block, the transactions just go along for the ride. This would be true regardless of how much hash power is cumulative.

Um... Can you rephrase this such that people like me who aren't Bitcoin aficionados can understand it?

Re: Bitcoin network average energy consumption per transaction compared to VISA

#43

I mean, I know people are commenting on whether the comparison is valid, but regardless, the BTC energy cost at at 741 kWh for a single transaction is pretty close to the average monthly household energy usage in the US of 867 kWh [1]. That seems pretty nuts on its face to me. [1] https://electricityplans.com/kwh-kilowatt-hour-can-power/

To put it in perspective, a single bitcoin transaction can power the average american's household electricity needs for... an entire month.

If you've looked at the transaction fees lately, you can definitely pay to power an American house for 1 month too (that is, assuming unreasonably that the house was powered at the same cost that most bitcoin miners pay for power: ~$0.04/kWh)

Re: Bitcoin network average energy consumption per transaction compared to VISA

#44
"Those critics of Bitcoin who point to its energy usage (as of this writing, ~75 terawatt hours per year) seem unwilling to acknowledge the energy usage that keeps the US dollar afloat. The US economy used almost 29,000 terawatt hours in 2019. As confirmed by the US Treasury Department, the value of the dollar is backed by all the goods and services in the US economy which would also include its energy sector. Furthermore, in 2019 world energy consumption was something on the order of 120,000 terawatt hours. Bitcoin uses ~0.25% of US energy consumption and less than 0.05% of world energy consumption."

https://jamie-dyer.medium.com/why-i-hate-bitcoin-38fad90b37e...

Re: Bitcoin network average energy consumption per transaction compared to VISA

#45

The link doesn't state whether it's counting only the energy costs incurred by VISA, or if it includes the energy costs of making a transaction on the SWIFT payment network that VISA, Mastercard, banks, and other institutions run on top of. Obviously to do a fair comparison you have to take SWIFT into account, otherwise you're not capturing the true energy cost of making a VISA payment. https://www.investopedia.com/a…

Perhaps you missed the fine print on the chart where it was comparing one BTC transaction to 100,000 visa transactions?

If the chart were anywhere close to 1:1 I could understand wanting to nitpick little details, but in this case go ahead and double/triple/quadruple the estimate, and it's still shocking.

Re: Bitcoin network average energy consumption per transaction compared to VISA

#47
post #21
post #2

It's worth mentioning that this kind of comparison is strange. Bitcoin mining does not get more difficult or change in any way with the number of transactions you mine. Mining always occurs on a single 80-byte header, and the entire transaction portion of that is a Merkle hash tree. The point here is that if Bitcoin would actually finally increase the block size of their chain (like Bitcoin Cash and others have done)…

What is the correct block size for a PoW cryptocurrency?

That's almost like asking "what is the correct number of sushi restaurants for a city?" The answer is a function of the marketplace.

In the case of cryptocurrencies, the answer is likely a combination of what miners and users can support. The goal is to be large enough that we don't have throughput problems and block space doesn't become a bidding war.

It's also worth mentioning that this doesn't mean the end-users have to be able to run nodes themselves or on mobile phones, since that makes use of a process called Simple Payment Verification (SPV) where they only process block headers and get the blocks they are interested in, but still verify the consensus of the network.

But, it also depends on what you see cryptocurrencies as. If you want them to replace traditional cash and create a "digital cash" world, then you want to see them accepted and used anywhere at a very large scale. In that world-view you have millions of transactions regularly and miners get paid with the sum of lots of small fees.

However, if you think that cryptocurrencies should only be used as a speculative asset or as a "digital gold" then you don't care much about it actually being transacted, and in that case fees as high as $50/tx are fine because you don't have any expectation that the world will be using it at scale.

Re: Bitcoin network average energy consumption per transaction compared to VISA

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put it in perspective, a single bitcoin transaction can power the average american's household electricity needs for... an entire month.

What is that in money, 50 bucks? (Live in Germany, we have very high energy prices, so I relly don't know. Single in 50sqm Appartment, paying 47euros per month for a 100% renewable plan.)

Depends where in the US -- In Texas (as long as there aren't any blizzard-driven blackouts with accompanying rate spikes), retail electricity costs something like $0.10/kWh. In California, it's closer to $0.20/kWh.

So roughly somewhere between $70-$150.

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