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Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

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Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common stock advice: if you hear about an investment opportunity, you've probably already missed out. Ex: Bitcoin stocks (yes they're stocks / investment products) are only really reported on when they're at an all-time high. They may go up a little more if you're reading something fresh off the press, but it's not going to go up as much as it already has. I mean if you bought a year ago you could have had a 10x retu…

Also once Wall Street turns it into a structured product or an ETF, then stay far away.

SPY has gone up 191% in 5 years. I'd say the good ETFs are fine.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good X and Good Y both increase in price over some period of time, but one does by 2% and the other by 4%. What is the true value of inflation? 2% or 4%? Or is it 3%? Or is it 3.5% because you buy one of the goods twice as often as the other? That's a question of first philosophical origins, and there's no "right" answer. Particularly if one of those is a house and in the period of time mentioned houses not only got…

> Good X and Good Y both increase in price over some period of time, but one does by 2% and the other by 4%. What is the true value of inflation? 2% or 4%? Or is it 3%? Or is it 3.5% because you buy one of the goods twice as often as the other? That's a question of first philosophical origins, and there's no "right" answer. Shouldn't the solution basically be how much monthly or yearly does an average consumer spend…

Yes. What then should happen when Good Z is invented and grows from 0% to substitute for 25% of Good Y?

How should a measure of inflation track that?

What if Good X becomes half as expensive per unit but people consume twice as much of it as a result? Should that be reflected as a reduction of inflation? If housing per front door goes up by 100% but only up per square foot [or room] by 50%, should the inflation rate of housing be 50%, 75%, or 100%?

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#473
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CPI is absurd, it only perpetuates consumerism and punishes savers. Okay okay back up. The consumer price index is a series of numbers designed to help people understand what dollar-denominated figures mean to ordinary people going about their lives, spending those dollars. If that's "consumerism," well yes, it's a portrait of consumerism. Many economists, mind you, believe CPI doesn't correct quite enough, and sus…

There's a ridiculous amount of misconception, FUD, and ignorance around inflation / CPI (it doesn't include housing, it overweights entertainent, it exclude food and energy, hedonic adjustments/basket substitutions make everything look artificially cheap) To professional economists, it can be infuriating to read (I imagine similar as medical professionals reading antivax blogs/comments, or radio engineers reading abo…

Is there an index that isn't a 'consumer price index' but a 'cost of living index' instead then? An index that includes the basics of life like food, energy costs, shelter, transport, education, healthcare and some basic consumer goods? I think the issue most have with CPI is it's often sold as a cost of living index by media, politicians and policy makers and it makes people feel unheard as a result.

"My cost of living has doubled but your saying everything is fine since the CPI has only gone up %3!!!" and general 'let them eat cake' style behaviors saying that iPads are 'so much cheaper'[0] is the general feeling I get.

[0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-dudley-ipad/ipad-...

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#474
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What drives you to defend the CPI? What drives you to question the motives of the commenter rather than responding to his arguments directly?

He's right, defending the CPI calculation is almost criminal. Many people on fixed incomes that are adjusted based on the CPI are negatively affected. This bogus formula will be conveniently altered to stay under 2% if inflation creeps into the basket of goods being calculated.

>He's right

Perhaps, but the right way to approach this is to point out the factual errors, rather than making thinly veiled insinuations that his opponent is a shill for the BLS or whatever.

>defending the CPI calculation is almost criminal

Ah yes, because the only possible explanation for why people don't hold the same beliefs as you is because they're acting with malice.

For this and the previous point I refer you to the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, namely:

Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken.

Assume good faith.

>Many people on fixed incomes that are adjusted based on the CPI are negatively affected. This bogus formula will be conveniently altered to stay under 2% if inflation creeps into the basket of goods being calculated.

All this does is provide a motive for why CPI might be wrong, but stops short of providing evidence or counter-arguments.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#475
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but inflation is not a feeling. It needs to be estimated using a statistical methodology.

It is a feeling to ppl who want to start a family, buy a house. Official Inflation doesn't count for those. What else is the word that we can use here?

Cost of living.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#476
post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purchased, not rented. GP was also referring to house prices, not rentals.

Yes that's what they said but then you modified it to "housing". People who rent are also purchasing "housing" and not on credit.

Feel free to substitute "real estate" for "housing" in my post.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#477

Cars are much safer and (for the same given size) go a lot farther for the same amount of fuel. They’re also faster, more reliable, last longer between maintenance (used to be 3000 miles between oil changes, now it’s... 7500 miles or so), more comfortable, and with more useful features (navigation, phone integration, etc). As far as homes, there HAS been real estate inflation, but homes are now better insulated, have…

Ha! Please look at the average housing stock in a city like LA or SF. Better insulated/efficient/bigger/new/21st century home it is not. The exact same 2 bedroom bungalow they built for returning GIs that probably cost $6000 back then costs north of $1.5m now. New construction only gets a slight bump of maybe another $200-400k or so (the cost of construction). The value isn't in how nice the house is, it's in the dirt below and where it sits on earth. The same $1.6m house in LA might go for $20k if you put it on a trailer and stuck it on some land in Nowhere, Louisiana instead. And don't get me started with the rental stock.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#478
post #17

"thanks to a combination of poor weather, increased demand and virus-mangled global supply chains." Seems like a lost opportunity to create so much anxiety with a long piece like this, to then only have this single line to hint at a reason for the rise. Can anybody more economically minded clarify if this is just post-covid rebound supply chain prices or is this food prices adjusting closer to their 'real' cost? Also…

Sure, almost all central banks over the world have printed an astronomical amount of money. Even though they may state there is no significant inflation, I dont buy it and neither do many other economists. Stock prices, house prices and now, at last, commodity prices have gone through the roof... But you're probably earning about as much as you were a year ago, or less, if your industry was affected... It's not just…

We were going to build a house about 6 months ago. Plywood sheets that we were looking at were $8. They're now $30.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you realize all the calculations use CPI? the bond market is highly manipulated because of that, why have a market then? why are retail accounts in germany, netherland already negative rates? does that make sense to you? can banks make money that way? danger of nationalization of banking? personal beef? no. I thought this is a forum for civil discussion and reasoning?

> do you realize all the calculations use CPI? Whose calculations? The Federal Reserve's calculations? The Federal Reserve has access to a variety of data sources, and while the CPI is the one that gets the press, they also use series like the chained CPI, the producer price index, bond yield curves, unemployment (and not just U3, but things like U6 and the labor force participation rate). If all you hear about is va…

Does the Fed look at inflation numbers within individual industries and metro regions?

Here's what I'm worried about: if you look at historical examples like say the 1970s inflation, or the post-Cold-War Warsaw Pact hyperinflations, or the post WW-2 hyperinflations in many European countries, prices didn't rise uniformly. Some industry or some region would experience very large inflation, and then eventually it would get transmitted to that industry's customers, or their suppliers. It's basically a network contagion, spread across the links in the economy.

We're seeing the early stages of this happen right now - that's what the article is about.

Powell's public comments are that "inflation doesn't turn on a dime" and "we're likely to see some localized price increases within certain industries, but no generalized inflation." The thing is - I know from history that the former can be false (particularly in wartime, and shifts from a controlled to a market economy, and the recovery from COVID has aspects of both), and the latter tells me that he's looking at the same data that I am but drawing the opposite conclusion. If 5% of firms are experiencing 30% inflation and the rest are experiencing no inflation, the PPI will read 1.5%. If that 30% inflation is in a core industry though (say food, or energy, or labor) and they pass it along to all their customers, then within 1-2 years you could have 30% inflation across the whole economy without passing through the 2% stage.

It's giving me COVID tingles from last year, where in March your overall risk of getting COVID in the U.S. was about 1:100,000, but your risk in NYC was 30%. Then suddenly your risk in Phoenix was 40%, and your risk in South Dakota was 50%, and then your risk in LA was 30%, and suddenly about 20% of the country has had it.

Poke holes in my reasoning, please.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#480
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CPI is absurd, it only perpetuates consumerism and punishes savers. Okay okay back up. The consumer price index is a series of numbers designed to help people understand what dollar-denominated figures mean to ordinary people going about their lives, spending those dollars. If that's "consumerism," well yes, it's a portrait of consumerism. Many economists, mind you, believe CPI doesn't correct quite enough, and sus…

There's a ridiculous amount of misconception, FUD, and ignorance around inflation / CPI (it doesn't include housing, it overweights entertainent, it exclude food and energy, hedonic adjustments/basket substitutions make everything look artificially cheap) To professional economists, it can be infuriating to read (I imagine similar as medical professionals reading antivax blogs/comments, or radio engineers reading abo…

it also has real world consequences as CPI is used as a metric for all manners of things, including COLA increases for Social security, as even some private companies.
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