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My life in Accenture before startups

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Re: My life in Accenture before startups

#91
This post really hits home for me. I have friends in consulting and I join a small tech company in bay area instead. I cannot believe when I hear about their experiences with consulting and how miserable they are in their jobs.

The struggle with consulting is that you never get to 'own' any decisions. There is not much accountability between conception, design and implementation. From my experience with big three consulting firms, they are brought in by execs to either 'validate' a path that was already determined or to get contract work done for short-term. In both cases, there is very little impact you can have on the overall business.

In my experience, if you want to be a good entrepreneur, get a job where you can own decisions and implementation. You will make mistakes, but you will learn from them and can implement those learnings in your startup.

Re: My life in Accenture before startups

#92
post #90

As a current Analyst (1 year out of college now) at Accenture, I have a few points to add: Positives: - Accenture greatly helps develop one's people skills and networking skills which can help prepare you for a startup. Building these skills in college is difficult, so jumping into a professional setting right after college helps. - The work enables you to understand real-world problems that clients are facing, so yo…

Is it just me, or do all of the ex- or current Accenture people posting here sound like Amway salesmen or cult members.

It's funny you say that - there's a lot of Kool-Aid drinking that goes on at Accenture (or any other corporate consulting brand for that matter). Re-reading my post, it does look a bit sales-ish.

Regardless, from my experience, there are quite a few people in the company with cult-like loyalty. The majority, however, (myself included) maintain a pretty healthy dose of skepticism and pragmatism.

Re: My life in Accenture before startups

#93
A few years ago I quit my job in academia to go work as a field delivery consultant for a large ERP firm. This whole thing was a ridiculous culture shock to me. I quit because I wanted to try something different -- it was different, all right.

For the first year or so I was doing some development work on the client side as well as requirements gathering and dealing with integration. I was cool with this, because I was doing something technical but wanted something that would flex my people skills as well.

At one point I was tasked with requirements gathering for a customer who wanted some custom work done to their installation of our product. They bought two weeks of my time to draft a spec, and no development -- my deliverable was basically to draft the SOW for the next consultant who was to write a technical design for someone else who was to write code.

I finished the spec, in spite of a client who really was extremely hard to deal with. The client sat on it for a few months and decided they wanted to revisit the issue, so I got on a plane again and spent two more weeks trying to tease some answers out of them so I could revise things.

The final specification amounted to approximately 95 pages including screenshot mockups. The spec went back to the home office, where our development team reviewed it and quoted something like three or four months' time to develop it, test it, and hand off back to the customer for acceptance testing. They planned for the invariable back and forth on that as well. This was in February of that particular year; they were looking at taking the feature live on January 1 of the following year.

The feature they requested? Four simple web forms, the code to validate their input, and a report generator to dump back out what was put into the form.

After we finalized the spec for this I turned in my two weeks and went straight back to academia, where four web forms and a report is something you write, wrap automated tests around, and deploy before lunchtime.

Re: My life in Accenture before startups

#94
My story is nearly identical (US, NY). I left after 5 years. No kool-aid drinking here.

Accenture is a culture you either fit into or you don't - a very 'up-or-out' mentality.

Some of the problems that commenters have noted are definitely attributed to the internal culture: an over-emphasis on face-time, long hours with no real work to do, and occasionally selling work that was undeliverable (technically unfeasible, impossible delivery schedule, etc).

Some management was good, a lot of it was poor, and generally the focus was on selling and looking good rather than delivering a viable product. At all levels, you're ranked against your co-workers for a very small number of promotion slots, particularly in recent times. This creates a strange dynamic: you're both trying to work with people at your level to create something useful for a client and prove that you're better/smarter/faster than your peers, some of whom are on the same project and most of whom you've never met.

Many of the complaints, however, are an effect of having large numbers of stakeholders on a complicated project. Clients are often unpredictable, and incented by a completely different set of goals. There's generally a lot of money and a lot of management involved, and people have their careers staked on these projects - disagreement is normal. Rework was extremely common due to constant spec changes, and I had to go to bat for my developers numerous times.

It's not a great work environment. Low and mid level people are generally dropped into a project with no background and the client has been told that they're experts on whatever giant, 30-year-old legacy system that the client is running. They fake it and learn on the job. There's often a hostile reception from the client employees - the perception is that you're a highly paid consultant coming to take their job or fire them. Travel is the norm, and you're expected to work long hours since you aren't going home to a family - just a generic hotel room.

Ultimately, what drove me out was the lack of interesting and rewarding work, the internal politics, and the isolation. Wish I had left sooner, but I hadn't figured out what I wanted.

Re: My life in Accenture before startups

#95
post #67

I can vouch for this. I never worked for any of the big 4, but worked with them on many occasions, when I was a consultant with a much smaller firm ( 200 when I left). Consulting really is a great way to learn the ins and outs of business while earning a good salary and getting to travel. Combine it with writing lots of code and its a fantastic real-world education for a multitude of endeavors.

When you put it that way, it sounds exciting. Sometimes I wish the world had forced me to go and do other things in between my undergrad and my PhD. Once you're on an academic career track it's hard to take a few years off to do something else.

You should make sure you get an internship.

I hated school by the time I had my undergraduate CS degree. I took two years in industry, realized I hated it far more than I could have ever imagined, now I am very happy in a PhD program. You need to work to get the perspective (and also to find the useful problems to solve).

Re: My life in Accenture before startups

#96

As a current Analyst (1 year out of college now) at Accenture, I have a few points to add: Positives: - Accenture greatly helps develop one's people skills and networking skills which can help prepare you for a startup. Building these skills in college is difficult, so jumping into a professional setting right after college helps. - The work enables you to understand real-world problems that clients are facing, so yo…

If you are employee, work with Accenture consultants, and want to see them pull their hair out then work long hours. They'll try to maintain the work longer deal until they give up.

Other than that, they team that I worked with was great. It helped by having a great Associate Partner managing the project, but most of the team was very knowledgeable. I was able to watch several projects from a distance, and I know this wasn't the norm.

Re: My life in Accenture before startups

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silly question, why do you eat at your desk? And do you actually type in any code, or do you just look at your code and think about stuff in your mind? It seems like you take breaks outside, but for me there's nothing like taking 30 mins to have lunch _at_ a table to clear your mind.

I find one of the most important functions of Lunch is to take a break and clear my head. My hands tend to be occupied, so if I'm home I'll watch an episode of something on Hulu or read HN. If I'm out with someone we'll just chat. It's really quite refreshing and I love the feeling of having solved something over lunch that was frustrating me all morning, without having to think about it directly.

Every one of my colleagues and me find the couple of people who eat in the cubicles next to us incredibly rude.

Both are either managers or team leads so there's not a lot of volunteers to inform them of this. Although there have been subtle hints, but no one has picked up on the clues yet.

And both are very proud of giving it 110%, hence the eat and work at the same time show. Which is a joke, because one of them often eats with a knife and fork. How much coding is he really getting done while doing that?

But we do have the noise of the utensils and the glass dishes to enjoy, along with the smell of the food and the other noises which tend to accompany eating.

So for all of you out there, eating at your desks at work. Please stop!

I guarantee you, your neighbors don't like it. It's a mess. You're not fooling anyone into thinking you're working extra hard because you're eating at your desk. An office is not a lunch room. Do yourself and everyone else a favor and take a short lunch break.

Re: My life in Accenture before startups

#99
post #93

A few years ago I quit my job in academia to go work as a field delivery consultant for a large ERP firm. This whole thing was a ridiculous culture shock to me. I quit because I wanted to try something different -- it was different, all right. For the first year or so I was doing some development work on the client side as well as requirements gathering and dealing with integration. I was cool with this, because I wa…

> he feature they requested? Four simple web forms, the code to validate their input, and a report generator to dump back out what was put into the form. After we finalized the spec for this I turned in my two weeks and went straight back to academia, where four web forms and a report is something you write, wrap automated tests around, and deploy before lunchtime.

I think this is a very uneven comparison. Comparing what a decent coder can do as to what is spec'd, negotiated and sold is wildly different.

At the heart of the problem is that consulting agencies and ISVs like Accenture benefit from more "work" being done, so they sell more "work". The product delivered is a consequence.

Re: My life in Accenture before startups

#100
post #98

Seriously, since when is Accenture considered Prestigious? It's not even a top consulting shop. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinsey_%26_Company#Competitor...

Big 3 of consulting: McKinsey, BCG, Bain - These are all strategy only.

Accenture was the consulting arm of Arther Anderson which was one of the Big 5 of accounting (Enron brought them down.)

Accenture is known for implementation/technology/strategy. Along with Deliotte, CapGemini, Booz, etc. These firms differentiate themselves with implementation from the Big 3 that are strategy only.

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