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SpaceX reveals the grand extent of its starport plans in South Texas

arstechnica.com

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Re: SpaceX reveals the grand extent of its starport plans in South Texas

#11

Post by bryanlarsen »

ericmay wrote: post #7

Quick question - since it's South Texas and I can see the Gulf of Mexico in the screenshot... isn't that a little close to the water? Not just maybe global warming + sea level rises but storm surge from hurricanes. Or is that not a concern? Anyone with more knowledge on the topic could share?

Closeness to the water is a requirement so that if a rocket fails it doesn't land on people. And you don't want to launch to the West so that you can take advantage of the Earth's rotation rather than fighting it. (Launch sites on the West coast are for polar orbits which launch either North or South).

Given those requirements, there's no location that isn't vulnerable to hurricanes. Boca Chica actually doesn't get many hurricanes compared to Florida or further North on the Texas coast.

Re: SpaceX reveals the grand extent of its starport plans in South Texas

#12

Post by terramex »

svachalek wrote: post #10
altcognito wrote: post #6

There's no indication that they are building any sort of structure to "catch" the first stage booster at the landing site. edit: It was pointed out that the integration tower to the very bottom is a likely candidate. This seems right as the proposed launch layout is slightly larger given the larger size of the booster.

Why would they? It lands under thrust like the Falcons, with two major differences: 1. it goes back to its launch area rather than merely going down as the Falcons do (why the Falcons need to land on a ship) 2. it's too heavy to get enough air resistance by falling vertically like the Falcons, so it does this amazing belly flop with a "flip and burn" at the last moment

You are talking about Starship (second stage). Super Heavy (first stage booster) will not do belly flop and will use special "catching" structure, its details are unknown as of today.

Re: SpaceX reveals the grand extent of its starport plans in South Texas

#13

Post by ericmay »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #11
ericmay wrote: post #7

Quick question - since it's South Texas and I can see the Gulf of Mexico in the screenshot... isn't that a little close to the water? Not just maybe global warming + sea level rises but storm surge from hurricanes. Or is that not a concern? Anyone with more knowledge on the topic could share?

Closeness to the water is a requirement so that if a rocket fails it doesn't land on people. And you don't want to launch to the West so that you can take advantage of the Earth's rotation rather than fighting it. (Launch sites on the West coast are for polar orbits which launch either North or South). Given those requirements, there's no location that isn't vulnerable to hurricanes. Boca Chica actually doesn't get m…

Thanks a lot, Bryan. I know/knew some of those things (like being close to water in general) - I guess I was concerned about how close it appeared to be :)

Re: SpaceX reveals the grand extent of its starport plans in South Texas

#14

Post by altcognito »

bdamm wrote: post #9
altcognito wrote: post #6

There's no indication that they are building any sort of structure to "catch" the first stage booster at the landing site. edit: It was pointed out that the integration tower to the very bottom is a likely candidate. This seems right as the proposed launch layout is slightly larger given the larger size of the booster.

There is the "Integration Tower" structure at the south side next to the new orbital launch pad. If the plan is to catch and re-fly then that would make sense.

Oh excellent, thank you very much, that looks like it. I don't know why I was thinking there would be a "landing circle" there. Exciting, this is probably the next most fascinating development to watch other than the orbital piece.

Everything else is exciting to watch as well, it's just that in terms of "things that are completely novel", these two things (catching the booster, starship coming back from orbital launch), are at the top of my list. I can't wait to see the first stage go off with its full complement of engines as well. That's going to be straight up incredible.

Re: SpaceX reveals the grand extent of its starport plans in South Texas

#16

Post by mooktakim »

ericmay wrote: post #7

Quick question - since it's South Texas and I can see the Gulf of Mexico in the screenshot... isn't that a little close to the water? Not just maybe global warming + sea level rises but storm surge from hurricanes. Or is that not a concern? Anyone with more knowledge on the topic could share?

I'm thinking maybe the solution would be simple as they'll just need to raise the platform and other areas by building up. The mostly empty land is not used for anything and allows for explosions without causing harm to people, they can be under water (maybe). You can raise the roads going to the platform too.

Re: SpaceX reveals the grand extent of its starport plans in South Texas

#17

Post by thescriptkiddie »

It would be cool if they built a full-scale prototype of their proposed methane/oxygen propellant plant near the launch site. It would be harder to pull CO2 out of the atmosphere on Earth than on Mars, but on the other hand solar power is much more abundant here.

Re: SpaceX reveals the grand extent of its starport plans in South Texas

#18

Post by mohaine »

svachalek wrote: post #10
altcognito wrote: post #6

There's no indication that they are building any sort of structure to "catch" the first stage booster at the landing site. edit: It was pointed out that the integration tower to the very bottom is a likely candidate. This seems right as the proposed launch layout is slightly larger given the larger size of the booster.

Why would they? It lands under thrust like the Falcons, with two major differences: 1. it goes back to its launch area rather than merely going down as the Falcons do (why the Falcons need to land on a ship) 2. it's too heavy to get enough air resistance by falling vertically like the Falcons, so it does this amazing belly flop with a "flip and burn" at the last moment

I believe that need for the belly flop isn't due to weight but is needed for the higher reentry speeds the upper stage. The current F9 reentry speeds are nothing like what is needed for orbital speeds not to mention from Moon/Mars.

If you are already doing a belly flop for reentry, you might as well do it all the way down to minimize the landing fuel penalty. For unmanned flights you can do it really late even if they crash at a low rate. I would expect manned flights to be less aggressive, especially near term.

Re: SpaceX reveals the grand extent of its starport plans in South Texas

#19

Post by darknavi »

ericmay wrote: post #7

Quick question - since it's South Texas and I can see the Gulf of Mexico in the screenshot... isn't that a little close to the water? Not just maybe global warming + sea level rises but storm surge from hurricanes. Or is that not a concern? Anyone with more knowledge on the topic could share?

Not sure it is any worse than KSC in terms of proximity to danger water.

Being on the cost is also nice because eventually they'll ship/fly the ships to the converted oil rig launch facilities.

Re: SpaceX reveals the grand extent of its starport plans in South Texas

#20

Post by Mauricebranagh »

thescriptkiddie wrote: post #17

It would be cool if they built a full-scale prototype of their proposed methane/oxygen propellant plant near the launch site. It would be harder to pull CO2 out of the atmosphere on Earth than on Mars, but on the other hand solar power is much more abundant here.

Do you really want a fuel plant next to a launch site?
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