Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet • Hacker News Board

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#201

Post by BTCOG » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

runarberg wrote: post #38

jetpackjoe wrote: post #9

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

Could anyone explain to me how proof of stake works (as opposed to proof of work), and how it is better? Has proof of stake been proven to be as robust as proof of work? EDIT: The wikipedia article is easy to find[1]. However it is really short, looks incomplete, and has a lot of “citation needed” after each point. So I would rather ask on HN. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_stake

No, it has in fact been proven many times over in many research white papers to be fatally flawed and that's why no serious cryptocurrency would implement proof of stake.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#202

Post by jtdev » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #142

whoisninja wrote: post #74

Steve Balmer and Bill also used to call Linux a cancer but look now: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-07/hackers-b... their OS filled with malicious stuff and who knows what kind of backdoors is when exploited by hackers, they blame it on China rather than taking responsibility of putting users at risk with vulnerable OS

I guess I don't follow the "Look now". Every large piece of software has security vulnerabilities. If MS were refusing to patch their software I guess you'd have a point - the fact they released a patch and people who didn't apply it are getting exploited isn't really relevant to whether or not bitcoin is bad for the planet. >their OS filled with malicious stuff and who knows what kind of backdoors is when exploited…

Your timeline is off... most organizations were exploited long before the patch went out.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#203

Post by Shorel » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

jetpackjoe wrote: post #9

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

This is actually something that Bjarne Stroustrup addressed when talking about C++:

There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.

In the case of cryptocurrencies, as soon as a cryptocurrency has any important percentage of use, these transactions are not confirmed in seconds anymore, and transaction fees starts to grow up. No one is really using PoS right now, so let's wait and see if this solution actually works when Ethereum officially switches.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#204

Post by lostgame » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #116

rustybelt wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. What? This may be the worst false dichotomy I've ever seen.

How so? Seems correct to me. Just this morning I had the choice of paying for groceries either with Bitcoin or by launching a violent invasion of the store.

/u/nindalf this honestly made me laugh out loud and spill my drink. The next time I am trying to explain the concept of a false dichotomy, I am absolutely using this example. XD

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#205

Post by mlcrypto » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

If you're reading this 10 years from now look how clueless everyone in this thread is. Everyone here still thinks BTC is not even the best crypto let alone the best asset in the world. If 50k isn't enough to convince them, nothing will. Hope you're enjoying $1M+ BTC prices in 2031.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#206

Post by whoisninja » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #142

whoisninja wrote: post #74

Steve Balmer and Bill also used to call Linux a cancer but look now: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-07/hackers-b... their OS filled with malicious stuff and who knows what kind of backdoors is when exploited by hackers, they blame it on China rather than taking responsibility of putting users at risk with vulnerable OS

I guess I don't follow the "Look now". Every large piece of software has security vulnerabilities. If MS were refusing to patch their software I guess you'd have a point - the fact they released a patch and people who didn't apply it are getting exploited isn't really relevant to whether or not bitcoin is bad for the planet. >their OS filled with malicious stuff and who knows what kind of backdoors is when exploited…

mission critical software that are widely used are much better off being open-source for long term security, look upon it if you've time. I kindly suggest do that if you care about security.

it's well known fact now, it was all the FUD by microsoft that this was not widely accepted previously. Do you think they have any incentive to be transparent about that? why does everyone have to pay forcefully for windows that comes with every laptop by default?

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#207

Post by rawtxapp » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

the_local_host wrote: post #159

shiado wrote: post #62

The irony is that the exact society destabilizing grand visions of the future billionaires advocate for are some of the main drivers behind people embracing Bitcoin. If you push a "you own nothing" WEF approved dystopian tech oligarch reality don't be surprised when people adopt an asset that cannot be confiscated by the government.

> An asset that cannot be confiscated by the government It might be intractable to confiscate bitcoin by attacking the math, but why wouldn't governments just put people in jail until they pay up? With adequate control over the internet, governments would be fairly able to track who's transacting. Moreover for the vast majority of people on earth would still have basically zero money relative to the emerging bitcoin…

What would be the reason for imprisoning someone who holds Bitcoin? Don't we live in a free society?

And even if they imprison you they won't be able to access your money:

https://amp.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3120852/germa...

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#208

Post by nunobrito » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

Signal to buy.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#209

Post by rfd4sgmk8u » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

Communitivity wrote: post #121

Bitcoin itself is not bad for the Planet. The current implementation differs somewhat from the Satoshi vision and has not scaled well in terms of fossil-fuel based electricity consumption. Solar or wind powered Bitcoin would have little impact, and in the right areas be cheaper for the miners. This is a trend I expect to see take off. Also, I suspect Bitcoin at some point will migrate to Proof of Stake once aspects o…

Nah, bitcoin will never be PoS coin. Bitcoin is defined as a PoW cryptocurrency. A PoS fork is not Bitcoin. Thank goodness!

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#210

Post by adolph » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

kitcar wrote: post #11

Bitcoin is an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws (greed, unwillingness to acknowledge externalities - i.e. selfishness). It's that old SF-trope that the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans.

> the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans

As opposed to elephants or sea urchins? How can humans not be the cause humanity's biggest problems?

The Buddha taught there are three kinds of dukkha [usually translated as “suffering”]. The first kind is physical and mental pain from the inevitable stresses of life like old age, sickness, and death. The second is the distress we feel as a result of impermanence and change, such as the pain of failing to get what we want and of losing what we hold dear. The third kind of dukkha is a kind of existential suffering, the angst of being human, of living a conditioned existence and being subject to rebirth.

https://tricycle.org/beginners/buddhism/what-did-the-buddha-...