Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes • Hacker News Board

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#321

Post by reedjosh » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

gher-shyu3i wrote: post #169

luxuryballs wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These boom bust cycles are caused by fiat money, inflationary debt/spending, government stimulus and over regulation that causes false market signals and creates bubbles, it’s not a capitalism problem, capitalism would be the solution.

Fiat money is the outcome of unfettered capitalism. The government needs money to pay its loans that it took with interest, so what does it do? Detach the currency from anything tangible like gold or other precious metals, then print more money as it desires, devaluing the hard work of people who are trying to save money. There's a reason that interest and usury are prohibited in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. Mar…

> The government needs money to pay its loans that it took with interest, so what does it do? Detach the currency from anything tangible like gold or other precious metals, then print more money as it desires.

That sounds like a government problem--not a capitalism problem. Though I do agree that this is the heart of the fiat issue.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#322

Post by bradleyjg » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #305

bradleyjg wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.8% (housing) and 3% (food) are dramatic increases to you? You would not have liked the 80s.

Where do you get 1.8%? Do you mean 1.8% over inflation? Because the nominal increase is of 4.3%, and that was during a pandemic year with a rent moratorium, it seems to be increasing even faster. But 2% per year faster than inflation is already quite bad. Remember, this is exponential.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26386135

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#323

Post by hedora » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #134

dijit wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding. There will be an insane recession, if not a depression. Capitalist economies have a short boom bust cycle and a long one. Short ones cause recessions every 10-20 years. Long ones cause depressions every 100~ years. It was clearly stated that Covid (if nothing else) could easily cause a recession, with other factors played in as well then it could easily trigger a depression.

Can you explain the difference between those, for those of us who are not well versed in economics terms?

They differ in magnitude, and (according to some) duration. Roughly speaking, a depression is a loss of more than 10% of economic output:

https://www.thoughtco.com/difference-between-a-recession-and...

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#324

Post by lmohseni » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #178

" Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes " ...Food price rises ARE inflation!

I have a pretty imperfect understanding of inflation, but wouldn’t increased food and energy prices mean that a consumer will have less money to spend on discretionary purchases? Ie, aren’t food price rises DEflationary?

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#325

Post by hedora » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

gher-shyu3i wrote: post #290

lottin wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, then say you disagree with the target, but don't say they are incompetent.

Why? The very fact that they are engaging in usurious loans is a sign of incompetence. Who ends up paying for it? The hard working people trying to save money.

Save the money in a way that encourages economic growth (buy stocks, invest in a small business, etc).

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#326

Post by eru » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

whoisninja wrote: post #306

eru wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are expecting pure Hayek, you are in for a ride: George Selgin is a dyed-in-the-wool fan of fractional reserve banking. (And with good reason.)

ah, i mean it is still ok to try to read arguments of both sides ... it's not like Hayek or people like us know it all

I wouldn't call it 'both sides'. For one, there are more than two sides. For the other, George Sergin is very much some-kind-of Austrian. Perhaps the most interesting one.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#327

Post by devilduck » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

it's almost time to eat the rich

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#328

Post by gher-shyu3i » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

hedora wrote: post #325

gher-shyu3i wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The very fact that they are engaging in usurious loans is a sign of incompetence. Who ends up paying for it? The hard working people trying to save money.

Save the money in a way that encourages economic growth (buy stocks, invest in a small business, etc).

So they're forcing me how to spend my money. What if I don't want to engage in interest (practically all companies deal with interest in one form or another), so when I buy their stocks I'm dealing with interest in some form.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#329

Post by JoeAltmaier » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

gher-shyu3i wrote: post #169

luxuryballs wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These boom bust cycles are caused by fiat money, inflationary debt/spending, government stimulus and over regulation that causes false market signals and creates bubbles, it’s not a capitalism problem, capitalism would be the solution.

Fiat money is the outcome of unfettered capitalism. The government needs money to pay its loans that it took with interest, so what does it do? Detach the currency from anything tangible like gold or other precious metals, then print more money as it desires, devaluing the hard work of people who are trying to save money. There's a reason that interest and usury are prohibited in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. Mar…

As population grows and goods get cheaper, it can work the other way too. That can make money more scarce and more valuable.

Economics is complicated. Pointing to one lever and saying "I understand the whole machine" is lazy. I call it 'playing dot to dot'. If you just draw lines between any dots you please, you can make the picture look like anything you want.

But there is a real picture there, it has lots of dots, and its worth understanding. Pontificating on the internet is not showing real understanding.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#330

Post by gruez » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

evrydayhustling wrote: post #273

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > In the U.S., prices rose close to 3% in the year ending Jan. 2, according to NielsenIQ, roughly double the overall rate of inflation. The study found that food prices are rising faster than inflation. 3% is high, and 1.5% over inflation is also concerning, but I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions based on the headline. Those inflation numbers would go unnoticed by most during normal…

Disagree that this is alarmism. The question is whether the way inflation is being measured matches the way we use it to make decisions. Graphs like AEI's Chart of the Century [1] have been highlighting for years that inflation numbers are inappropriately averaging decreasing costs for discretionary purchases, while costs for essentials like healthcare and education grow out of control. When food also starts outpacin…

> Graphs like AEI's Chart of the Century [1] have been highlighting for years that inflation numbers are inappropriately averaging decreasing costs for discretionary purchases, while costs for essentials like healthcare and education grow out of control.

To be fair, three out of the seven categories that are under inflation can also be considered "essential". Imagine the outrage if cars (or more generally, transport) and clothing increased 2x over inflation, or if cellphone/internet access became less and less affordable (remember all the "internet should be an essential service" headlines at the start of the pandemic?).