Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes • Hacker News Board

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#301

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

evrydayhustling wrote: post #273

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > In the U.S., prices rose close to 3% in the year ending Jan. 2, according to NielsenIQ, roughly double the overall rate of inflation. The study found that food prices are rising faster than inflation. 3% is high, and 1.5% over inflation is also concerning, but I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions based on the headline. Those inflation numbers would go unnoticed by most during normal…

Disagree that this is alarmism. The question is whether the way inflation is being measured matches the way we use it to make decisions. Graphs like AEI's Chart of the Century [1] have been highlighting for years that inflation numbers are inappropriately averaging decreasing costs for discretionary purchases, while costs for essentials like healthcare and education grow out of control. When food also starts outpacin…

[deleted]

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#302

Post by __s » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

tinus_hn wrote: post #165

ketzu wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was "lockdowns are free" a serious position held by a relevant number of people?

I’m sure these 13.5 million people in the US, who now can’t afford food anymore, wouldn’t have been such enthusiastic lockdown supporters had they realized they would pay the price themselves.

Lockdowns aren't free, but neither would ignoring the pandemic be. There's no way to avoid the cost

Looking back at the Spanish Flu, https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-covi... showed that lockdowns ended up being cheaper than no lockdowns

Unfortunately the ruling class will always find a way to trickle down costs, so it's no surprise that the poorer you are the more impacted you are. With or without lockdown

"I am once again asking for your financial support" meme for tax payers bailing out megacorp bonuses yet again

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#303

Post by brink » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

wideareanetwork wrote: post #40

This sort of news makes me want to panic.

It's panicking that caused the issue in the first place.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#304

Post by makomk » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #202

kjrose wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Food prices are not properly accounted for in inflation measures" There, fixed the headline.

No, one component of “inflation” (defined as the rise in the consumer price index) rises much faster than the others.

It's entirely possible that all the things in the consumer price index and other measures of inflation rise overall faster than the headline inflation measures - they do some weird things with weighting and so-called hedonistic adjustments which means that it's probably literally impossible for someone to experience inflation that low. For example, they compensate for the supposed increase in values from, say, flash drives increasing in size, computers in speed, and TVs in size in a way that doesn't make sense if you can't even save money by buying a smaller flash drive or slower computer, or you need a faster PC to do the same things, or if the 32 inch TVs have the same resolution, sound and picture quality as a 24 inch of yesteryear and you have to go up to 40-50 inches to get something actually equivalent in quality to a 32 inch TV from years ago.

For a while, one of the key US inflation measures even assumed that if people's medication went up in price massively they'd substitute it for whatever medicine hadn't exploded in price even if it was for some completely different condition! And I'm not convinced that, even for things which genuinely are substitutable like different kinds of food, it's actually possible over the long term to substitute your spending in a way that matches up with official inflation figures.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#305

Post by sudosysgen » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #288

bfrog wrote: post #239

So housing and food has gone up dramatically, but still "inflation is low" is the story. Doesn't and hasn't passed the smell test in a decade.

1.8% (housing) and 3% (food) are dramatic increases to you? You would not have liked the 80s.

Where do you get 1.8%? Do you mean 1.8% over inflation? Because the nominal increase is of 4.3%, and that was during a pandemic year with a rent moratorium, it seems to be increasing even faster.

But 2% per year faster than inflation is already quite bad. Remember, this is exponential.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#306

Post by whoisninja » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #300

whoisninja wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

of course Mr. Selgin is influenced by Hayek, probably worth a read. thanks for sharing

If you are expecting pure Hayek, you are in for a ride: George Selgin is a dyed-in-the-wool fan of fractional reserve banking. (And with good reason.)

ah, i mean it is still ok to try to read arguments of both sides ... it's not like Hayek or people like us know it all

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#307

Post by nashashmi » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

I had a dream recently on this topic. Price of food inflating. And clothing too. And inversely housing prices dropping.

And then it made sense to me. When the cost of everyday goods go up, there is more money flowing in meager industries.

That means more money for the average joe. (Or it used to be before robot corporations overtook farming.)

And that means more concentration of resources for the normal guy. Which means smaller housing compared to McMansions. And smaller cost of living all around. The problem is that today’s large rich population become not so well off. And poor people hit a better standard of living.

Higher food prices may be a good thing.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#308

Post by smachiz » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

whoisninja wrote: post #297

fennecfoxen wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CPI is absurd, it only perpetuates consumerism and punishes savers. Okay okay back up. The consumer price index is a series of numbers designed to help people understand what dollar-denominated figures mean to ordinary people going about their lives, spending those dollars. If that's "consumerism," well yes, it's a portrait of consumerism. Many economists, mind you, believe CPI doesn't correct quite enough, and sus…

do you realize all the calculations use CPI? the bond market is highly manipulated because of that, why have a market then? why are retail accounts in germany, netherland already negative rates? does that make sense to you? can banks make money that way? danger of nationalization of banking? personal beef? no. I thought this is a forum for civil discussion and reasoning?

I don't really have a dog in this fight other than to point out your initial post was neither civil nor reasoned - and included not citations or facts.

I'm starting to understand what you're insinuating I think, but you still haven't made your point.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#309

Post by reedjosh » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #214

randerson wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget soaring stock prices too. Sure all feels like inflation to me.

Talking about inflation seems to have turned into some sort of political issue. I know I can feel the prices rising everywhere. But ppl counter it immediately by saying 'fed has tools like increasing interest rates if it really becomes a problem, they know better than you'

> Talking about inflation seems to have turned into some sort of political issue.

It is political. The method in which inflation is created benefits bankers via interest. Further, higher inflation widens the divide between the asset class and the rest of us.

However, the mainline (I would say propaganda) is that `...they know better than you` where `they` are unelected technocrats.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#310

Post by aww_dang » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

tokenmonster wrote: post #86

If food prices are soaring, and there's a bubble in all kinds of other assets like stocks and bitcoin, why aren't we calling it inflation - can anyone explain why policymakers aren't really concerned?

There's little choice but to rationalize this state of affairs.

Continuing to inflat the money supply is the politically expedient option. Price inflation is a related phenomenon. The Fed is unable to decrease it's balance sheet in a meaningful way.

Some politicians are critical of central bank monetary policy. They are frequently maligned.