Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes • Hacker News Board

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#41

Post by DrBazza » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

azalemeth wrote: post #7

z92 wrote: post #5

I don't get how food consumption can increase in a pandemic. Should be constant in or outside a pandemic situation. Possibly somewhere crops are getting rotten because of newly imposed export restrictions, or for some other things.

In the UK at least, it's very much due to new-found export (and import) restrictions. The price of food has slightly increased since brexshit, whereas its availability has plummeted: the number of varieties of vegetables stocked by my local Tesco, for example, has plummeted, and the stock sells out almost immediately after delivery.

> The price of food has slightly increased since brexshit, whereas its availability has plummeted: the number of varieties of vegetables stocked by my local Tesco, for example, has plummeted, and the stock sells out almost immediately after delivery.

Zero problems in any of the major supermarkets in my area in the South East. My food bills haven't increased notably either, if anything, looking at my bank statement right now, they seem lower over the past 4-5 months than the year before.

The only anecdotal thing I have noticed, is that there a few new brands on the shelves that weren't there previously, but that's probably just observational and confirmation bias, because I was looking for something, I saw it.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#42

Post by onion2k » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #23

jopsen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having we been giving much printed money to people who need more food? Most people in the western world aren't likely to buy more food, just because they have more money. Not saying, we won't see inflation, who knows, but I doubt we'll see it in household items.

> Most people in the western world aren't likely to buy more food, just because they have more money. If you have more money and you use it to buy more food, that's not inflation. Inflation is when you have more money and you use it to buy the same amount of food. Give people more money, and you will see the price of everything rise without seeing the amount of stuff they buy go up.

Give people more money, and you will see the price of everything rise without seeing the amount of stuff they buy go up.

In the specific case of COVID in the UK, people have been given money to replace the money they would have earned. The people don't have extra money. The system hasn't changed except for the fact that the money is coming from the government instead of the their employer.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#43

Post by herbst » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:31 AM UTC

jopsen wrote: post #6

cyberpsybin wrote: post #3

Here it comes. Cost of running money printer too hard.

Having we been giving much printed money to people who need more food? Most people in the western world aren't likely to buy more food, just because they have more money. Not saying, we won't see inflation, who knows, but I doubt we'll see it in household items.

For about a year now i buy food in bulk. Mostly because its really nice to have everything at home. However i likely buy more food now too as i never experience the 'nothing nice to eat better go to sleep' situations any more.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#44

Post by sneak » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:33 AM UTC

DecoPerson wrote: post #4

After reading this article, I want to stock up on more food for myself and my five dependents. Double our reserves of biscuits, cereals, frozen meat, frozen bread, canned food, preserves, long-life milk, honey, multivitamins, MREs, etc etc. Is this panic buying? Is it OK? Does it hurt other people? I’d be interested to hear some different points of view.

It is indeed "panic buying" by the definition, but it need not be panicked. It is prudent to have a few months of supplies on hand if you know you're going to need them.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#45

Post by DrBazza » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:34 AM UTC

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #2

"thanks to a combination of poor weather, increased demand and virus-mangled global supply chains." Seems like a lost opportunity to create so much anxiety with a long piece like this, to then only have this single line to hint at a reason for the rise. Can anybody more economically minded clarify if this is just post-covid rebound supply chain prices or is this food prices adjusting closer to their 'real' cost? Also…

There's an additional article that was on here the other day, that says there's a world-wide shipping problem.

Many containers are abandoned in countries that aren't on major routes because they took PPE to those countries, but never bothered to bring the empty containers back.

Also lots of boats moored off the US East and West coasts, plus Europe, waiting of loading/unloading because of delayed supply chains due to COVID.

It's a butterfly or ripple effect of high optimized supply chains being affected by small changes caused by nature/the government throwing a virus shaped spanner in the works.

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#46

Post by hellbannedguy » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:34 AM UTC

The article blames transportation cost due to Covid, and an increase in raw food prices for the rise in food cost.

In my little bubble, in the Bay Area, it feels like plain old greed, and opportunity, but not price gouging.

When the government tells me where I can shop, along with my fear of how certain stores have dealt with Covid precautions, my buying habits don’t take price into account like before.

The first few months; I bought transportation, and raw costs, but now I’m not so sure.

My local Safeway has raised prices on everything. At first, they looked like they were trying to be fair. Now——it looks like they know people can basically shop fir food, so why not raise prices on everything while they have you there?

Same goes for Homedepot. Yea, raw wood prices, and appliances have gone up, but it looks like everything they sell went up.

I haven’t been into Whole food because my local store has had too many sick employees.

(While we are on prices, Mercury Insurance refunded me $6.46 on a $600 policy, and that was last year. Why hasn’t my insurance gone way down? It just seems like accidents would be down? My policy is minimum I can legally get away with. I was going to switch to an insurance company that bills per mile, but my old car does not have a computer that Tye “honesty” devise can plug into. I would be happy to send the company a picture of my odometer monthly, but that is not an option.)

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#47

Post by thaumasiotes » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:35 AM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #42

thaumasiotes wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people in the western world aren't likely to buy more food, just because they have more money. If you have more money and you use it to buy more food, that's not inflation. Inflation is when you have more money and you use it to buy the same amount of food. Give people more money, and you will see the price of everything rise without seeing the amount of stuff they buy go up.

Give people more money, and you will see the price of everything rise without seeing the amount of stuff they buy go up. In the specific case of COVID in the UK, people have been given money to replace the money they would have earned. The people don't have extra money. The system hasn't changed except for the fact that the money is coming from the government instead of the their employer.

Did you respond in the wrong place? "More money" is a premise of "Most people in the western world aren't likely to buy more food, just because they have more money."

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#48

Post by DrBazza » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:36 AM UTC

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #13

After just finishing reading Griftopia; I would not be surprised if Goldman Sachs had something to do with this or at least speculation of perishable commodities.

Speculation in commodities reminded me of the onion futures act [0]

""" The Onion Futures Act is a United States law banning the trading of futures contracts on onions as well as "motion picture box office receipts".[1]

In 1955, two onion traders, Sam Siegel and Vincent Kosuga, cornered the onion futures market on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. The resulting regulatory actions led to the passing of the act on August 28, 1958. As of January 2021, it remains in effect.[1]

The law was amended in 2010 to add motion picture box office futures to the list of banned futures contracts, in response to lobbying efforts by the Motion Picture Association of America.[2] """

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#49

Post by gremlinsinc » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:36 AM UTC

alexf95 wrote: post #28

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't get how food consumption can increase in a pandemic. depression spurs eating binges. being inside what to do, oh lets make more advanced food. lets bake cakes with the kids instead of sending them out to play with friends. etc. etc. so increased consumption in combination with other, probably more important, pandemic problems.

But with most restaurants closing your will also have to subtract the food that would have been used there. Obviously most of them tried to change to a takeaway service, but I am pretty sure their overall customers went down by alot during all of this.

Restaurant supply chains are a totally separate beast. Bulk foods being supplied were mostly sent to landfills. Tons of potatoes for example that were only ear-marked for restaurants went straight to the dump.

Supplier A only supplies to restaurants it's normally a safe bet, so that's all they do. No restaurants buying - holy shit - my entire crop is excess...

I'm not a farmer but this is what I've read.

There's also the fact a lot of panic buyers might buy too much, then end up throwing a bit away because of fear that when they need it - it won't be there, but then it just spoils at home, etc.

Also food banks are taking a lot of the food. More people actually have money for food (one thing the govt does do is make sure people don't starve (usually) maybe more if you have kids).

TLDR: You can't just move all restaurant food to consumer/grocery like it's a commodity in Factorio... it takes a lot to shift global supply chains and get new contracts on how deliverables are received, etc...

Re: Food Prices Are Soaring Faster Than Inflation and Incomes

#50

Post by tryonenow » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:40 AM UTC

nelsonmandela wrote: post #37

Closed borders, no students/backpackers, farmers unprepared to pay minimum wages to Australians is resulting in a lot of produce being plowed back into the ground. I just don't know how this economy keeps rolling. How can farmers meet the payments on their loans? Reading 'The great depression: A diary' and looking at the world today just shocks the hell out of me. We are following it step for step and the crash is go…

Wouldn't prices go up anyway if farmers were forced to pay higher wages for picking? I imagine the margin on vegetables is quite tiny...