Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it • Hacker News Board

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#431

Post by ikurei » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:04 AM UTC

injidup wrote: post #322

Seriously? Selective sampling and click bait. Two recent programs come to mind and I'm sure this list is not exhaustive. "The boys" and "Orville". Both chock full of "heroes" who in-between being heroes are preoccupied with banging each other, getting drunk, eating or failing themselves. The last episode of "The Boys" ends with Homelander jerking off while perched on a ledge over the city and raging at the unfairness…

As others said, I think you're being selective. The article focuses on mainstream action movies.

The boys has had great success but still has orders of mangnitude less cultural impact than the MCU for instance. It's actually making, to some extent, the same point the article is making: super hero movies are bland and childish.

I didn't even know what Orville is, sounds interesting.

I'd say the _slice of current cinematic culture_ selected by the article is broad and impactful, and represents fairly well an important part of the whole. It's not the whole story, and you're right in pointing that out, but I don't agree that that invalidates the article.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#432

Post by ikurei » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

TomSwirly wrote: post #425

milchek wrote: post #27

This was a fun read, especially as someone who grew up with those 80s and 90s movies. That said, and as the author touches on, the action/super hero of today is a PG-13 one. Studios need to reach the widest audience possible to make the most money, so it's a safer bet. Sure, back in the day studios had the same imperative, but the licensed toy game was still young, so they didn't realise that maybe if they made Die H…

> Studios need to reach the widest audience possible to make the most money, so it's a safer bet. As opposed to... what time in the past where this was not true?

I'd guess this was always true, but to a lesser extent. Movies today are super expensive, and at least the movies discussed here are considered failures if they don't reach a huge ammount of people.

The risk was still there before, but may be not to this extent.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#433

Post by BiteCode_dev » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:08 AM UTC

injidup wrote: post #322

Seriously? Selective sampling and click bait. Two recent programs come to mind and I'm sure this list is not exhaustive. "The boys" and "Orville". Both chock full of "heroes" who in-between being heroes are preoccupied with banging each other, getting drunk, eating or failing themselves. The last episode of "The Boys" ends with Homelander jerking off while perched on a ledge over the city and raging at the unfairness…

What's more, tv shows are also often adapted from comics or books in a way that satisfy the advertisers.

Take lockes and keys on netflix. The original comics is very violent. The murdered rape the kids mother, and when he escapes jail, he pays his ride by sucking dicks. He has horrible scars because the big brother trashed him with a brick in a blood frenzy that is visually rehashed as a memory regularly in the first tome. Bode sister hurt herself and his little bro while hidding because she is holding so hard.

None of that made it into the tv show despite the fact it makes the story better: the characters make more sense, their reactions are congruent with their tragedy.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#434

Post by mapleshamrock » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:09 AM UTC

willyt wrote: post #406

prirun wrote: post #317

I have never understood why nudity and consensual sex - basically harmless activities - are deeply frowned on by the ratings groups, yet stabbing someone in the throat and having their blood gush out everywhere is fine and dandy. Everyone knows that men have dicks. Why is seeing one such a big deal? Or a butt for that matter: everybody has one! It's no wonder our society is screwed up when it comes to our bodies. We…

Try some European stuff? These are all excellent and non-violent: - Normal People - Call my agent (Dix pour cent) - Fleabag

Funny, Normal People comes out of Ireland, historically a very sexually repressed nation under the thumb of the Catholic Church. Times are changing rapidly in Ireland though.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#435

Post by Chris2048 » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:12 AM UTC

leveleer323 wrote: post #346

hirundo wrote: post #35

Is this a side effect of normalizing porn, that sexuality is more effectively partitioned? I once had a debate in an online forum about legalizing prostitution, and most participants were supportive of it. Then I asked the same group, what about legalizing partial prostitution, like a receptionist that also has sex with the boss as part of the job description. The participants all immediately switched to revulsion at…

This is no brainer. If a job description involves having sex, then people who don't want to have sex will be forced to do so which violates basic human right. On the other hand having sex with boss or any one with consent should not be prohibited legally.

> people who don't want to have sex will be forced to do so

This doesn't make sense. Not everyone wants to weld either.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#436

Post by meheleventyone » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:15 AM UTC

necovek wrote: post #404

meheleventyone wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No ones bought it up but to me it seems an issue of of coercion and consent. Even if prostitution was 100% legal it should absolutely be up to the prostitute on a case by case basis when, where, who and how they had paid sex. On that basis your boss who inherently has power over you being able to ask for sex is to close to exploitation and easy to see how it can be abused. We should note this abuse is already all too…

That's a very good point: basically, it's easy to support sexual work as "contractor work", where the "working party" can choose who they work with, without any long-term commitment (or at least, simple way to break off the contract). An employment contract is significantly different in that employer gets to decide who the work is done for by the employee.

The same protections should be extended to full time employment as well. In the same way your boss cannot compel you to do something dangerous and there are standards around safety and workplace rules.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#437

Post by dsign » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:15 AM UTC

_xnmw wrote: post #415

airhead969 wrote: post #325

Fuck all that mass-media social programming propaganda. Murder and violence are "okay," while sex and sexuality are "bad." I'll walk around naked, look at women, and hookup whenever I damn well please. Sex is awesome, bodies are beautiful, and no shame is necessary for either. Films that cannot be made in modern America: - Laura, les ombres de l'été (1979) - Lolita (either) - Pretty Baby (1978) - Caligula (1979) - Ro…

Scarcity increases value. We often artificially enforce the scarcity of things in order to preserve its value. That's the reason why patents, IP and copyrights exists, for example. "Marriage" and "fidelity" are a means of artificially enforcing scarcity on sex, in order to increase the value and likelihood of partners bonding for life, which in turn improves the child-rearing situation for society, as single parents…

> "Marriage", according to anthropologists ....

There is a very interesting discussion about that in "Sex at dawn". Shortly put, anthropologists are very biased, and they will use their data selectively.

Today, there are people that live wholesome lives with multiple consensual sexual partners, search for polyamory.

IMHO, there simply is a lot of residual prejudice coming down from old religious dogma.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#438

Post by bspammer » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:16 AM UTC

aksss wrote: post #299

jack_pp wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't comment on the personal stuff because I've stopped trying to save everyone. For the record I rolled on random.org with a 20% chance saying I should offer to personally help you and you got 57. > When push comes to shove, women are expected to use their sexuality to some degree to open doors career-wise in a way men are generally not expected to do Men are generally not epected to use their sexuality because i…

> I rolled on random.org with a 20% chance saying I should offer to personally help you and you got 57. Funniest thing I’ve read today. Is that a normal thing you do? Just online or for the panhandler at the corner via mobile? How do you determine the saving throw? So many Q’s..

Seems like an incredibly disturbing characteristic to me. Especially if they tell the person every time they “didn’t make the cut”

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#439

Post by tgv » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:17 AM UTC

kodah wrote: post #373

Thorentis wrote: post #368

Our society glorifies pornography and sex-work, but condemns the objectification of bodies. Our society condemns fat shaming, but makes idols out of instagram models. We are very, very confused. Huxley predicted a world where sex became God. Orwell predicted a world where sex was taboo. Unsurprisingly, the reality is that our society has become a paradox by adopting both.

I think what you're witnessing is the two ideologies coming to a head. One which is a staunchly prude version of society going head to head with a staunchly open version of society in the most proxy way possible. The proxy being art, journalism, and finally public discourse.

I think the left wing of the two sides has embraced prudishness, rationalizing it as being feminist (female nudity => objectification => sexual violence). The left has always had a large prudish faction, so it's not really a surprise.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#440

Post by ClumsyPilot » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:19 AM UTC

pronlover723 wrote: post #315

astrange wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once read a reader question in a mainstream game magazine (GameInformer I think?) where they asked why it was ok for games to have violence but not sex. The answer was extremely angry they had to explain this, like a parent lecturing a child who'd just embarassed them in public. But anyway, their answer was the opposite of yours. Violence in games is good because you "shouldn't do it in real life". Sex in video gam…

That sounds like the same answer to me. As an adult you should have "responsible" sex in real life. So, sex in media with a young and irresponsible audience will lead to irresponsible sex and all the repercussions. Hence, the common idea, don't show kids sex. Violence in media will not (or at least no one has been able to find a connection)

I am sorry this is total BS, now even 10 year olds suddenly have access to porn, and amount of sex in society plummeted.

Secondly, I didn't sign up for catholic church, sex is not a sinfull activity limited to procreation only.