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Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

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Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#361

Post by NalNezumi »

croes wrote: post #90

Her take on the Starship troopers shower scene seems to be an american point of view. Nudity in an unisex shower isn't about flirting and sex for a european. Paul Verhoeven was naked too while filming it, because the actors felt uncomfortable at first.

>Nudity in an unisex shower isn't about flirting and sex for a european.

VERY hard to make a sweeping generalization under "European" in this context. I'm from Scandinavia and I'm fine with it, but my SO that is from France, bordering to Germany, always tell me how horrified she (still) gets when she cross the border and end up in changing rooms. Heard similar story from Italians.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#362

Post by ALittleLight »

ahthat wrote: post #285
hirundo wrote: post #35

Is this a side effect of normalizing porn, that sexuality is more effectively partitioned? I once had a debate in an online forum about legalizing prostitution, and most participants were supportive of it. Then I asked the same group, what about legalizing partial prostitution, like a receptionist that also has sex with the boss as part of the job description. The participants all immediately switched to revulsion at…

I think people are confusing the notion of being a secretary and having sex with your boss with the idea that it is inherently wrong for superiors to use their workplace capital to exploit those who work under them. It is completely correct that the latter idea is exploitative; however, if a woman is a secretary and is also arranged to have sex with her boss via her job description, and she consents to this when acce…

I think there is something very wrong with that requirement. In the name of sexual liberation you would make sexual wage slavery common. In a world where this is normal or acceptable corporate lawyers and HR departments may write in such clauses into employment contracts just to cut down on the number of sexual harassment cases and issues.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#363

Post by refurb »

JimBlackwood wrote: post #352
leveleer323 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the gist of the post expect walking around naked. I don't know if its a right thing to be naked around children. I am too biased to be brought up growing with clothes on, haven't thought or heard the argument of the other side.

Kids don’t know if something is good, bad, weird or whatever until they’re told. If you are fine not wearing clothes, and do it in your home, your kids wont think anything of it.

Not true. It’s not uncommon for a toddler to find a private place to defecate without being told. There is an innate sense of a need for privacy for some things.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#364

Post by ALittleLight »

heterodoxxed wrote: post #234
hirundo wrote: post #35

Is this a side effect of normalizing porn, that sexuality is more effectively partitioned? I once had a debate in an online forum about legalizing prostitution, and most participants were supportive of it. Then I asked the same group, what about legalizing partial prostitution, like a receptionist that also has sex with the boss as part of the job description. The participants all immediately switched to revulsion at…

Sex work and pugilism I think can be strongly equated. Both involve using ones body and adult consent. One for sex, the other for violence. We don't outlaw boxing or MMA. But we put regulations on it. We shut down illegal basement fights. And we hope people going into it aren't coerced and have recourse if something goes wrong. We accept that if an adult wants to get punched in the face for money that's something soc…

I don't think that's a perfect analogy because the worker can win in boxing in a way that they can't as a prostitute and there is likely far less of an appetite for compelling your workers to fight you than there is for compelling your workers to have sex with you.

I agree we shouldn't normalize employer/employee boxing matches (although I'd be willing to participate in some instances...) but it seems a lot less consequential a choice as legalizing the hybrid prostitute role.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#365

Post by bigiain »

lstodd wrote: post #344
bigiain wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Russian cinema. Or at least all the Russian cinema that makes it to Australia and I get to see...

I guess the crap gets filtered out. But I'm curious - what exactly gets to Australia from Russia nowadays?

The ones that have stuck in my head over the years have been Daywatch and Nightwatch, Leviathan, and How I Ended This Summer. I’m sure there’s a few more I can’t remember right now. (I highly recommend all of those...)

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#366

Post by refurb »

edgyquant wrote: post #320
minxomat wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean for one, a nude shower is the standard at pretty much all pools. Gender-separated most of the time, but still. From elementary school swimming lessons (which to be fair happen before pools open to the general public), to attending them as an adult, you drop all clothes when you enter and shower in one big room. Sure there might be partial walls for the extra shy, but most just don't care. Same goes for gym sho…

I’m American and the public pools I’ve been to are mostly not like this. They have individuals “cubicles” that you go into and then you can take close off and shower.

Huh. I’m American and we had a change room at work and all the guys would walk around nude and nobody thought anything of it.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#367

Post by ALittleLight »

Const-me wrote: post #156
hirundo wrote: post #35

Is this a side effect of normalizing porn, that sexuality is more effectively partitioned? I once had a debate in an online forum about legalizing prostitution, and most participants were supportive of it. Then I asked the same group, what about legalizing partial prostitution, like a receptionist that also has sex with the boss as part of the job description. The participants all immediately switched to revulsion at…

> why is 100% sex work less exploitative than 50% sex work? I oppose receptionist that also has sex with the boss. Exploitation has nothing to do with that. At least in my world view, having sex at workplace is unprofessional. First of all, spending corporate or investor's money on paying sex workers is wrong. Even if the boss is the sole owner of the company i.e. spending their own money, boss fucking a receptionist…

You seem to be suggesting there would be logistical problems with the idea of the prostitute/receptionist, but I think that even if those problems were solved it would still be a bad idea. If there was a clause in the contract that sex had to be outside the workplace and the money to pay for the sex act had to come from the entertainment accounts and the company had no problem attracting female employees or retaining workers, would you support it then? That would seem to answer all your logistical concerns.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#368

Post by Thorentis »

Our society glorifies pornography and sex-work, but condemns the objectification of bodies. Our society condemns fat shaming, but makes idols out of instagram models.

We are very, very confused. Huxley predicted a world where sex became God. Orwell predicted a world where sex was taboo. Unsurprisingly, the reality is that our society has become a paradox by adopting both.

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#369

Post by teekert »

leveleer323 wrote: post #340
airhead969 wrote: post #325

Fuck all that mass-media social programming propaganda. Murder and violence are "okay," while sex and sexuality are "bad." I'll walk around naked, look at women, and hookup whenever I damn well please. Sex is awesome, bodies are beautiful, and no shame is necessary for either. Films that cannot be made in modern America: - Laura, les ombres de l'été (1979) - Lolita (either) - Pretty Baby (1978) - Caligula (1979) - Ro…

I agree with the gist of the post expect walking around naked. I don't know if its a right thing to be naked around children. I am too biased to be brought up growing with clothes on, haven't thought or heard the argument of the other side.

You don't know if it's right to be naked around children? How are they supposed to learn about normal bodies?

Here in the Netherlands a new children's TV program started: [0], kids ask naked people questions. I applaud it, finally, a source of naked that is not porn, The kids ask stuff like: "What are you most ashamed of about your body" and things about new hair growth they are about to experience, not even sex so far. And they get to see realistic penises and breasts while they are learning.

I guess I'm finally starting to understand why I like old Dutch movies like "Turks Fruit" [1]. Or modern non-US series for example from Spain, where people have sex (even in their 40's omg!) and go to the toilet, and where women are strong. I like Casa de Papel for example, Raquel is very sensual, intelligent, funny, flirty and strong, and usually fully covered in clothes, perhaps the antithesis of this new asexual trend. It's refreshing and normal and liberating. Of course it helps that she like's the nerdy "Professor" ;). Although this nerdy professor can, in contrast to all stereotypes, flirt quite well ("Intelligence can be very sexy") and knows how to engage with her. Also: refreshing.

[0] https://nos.nl/artikel/2371530-naakt-in-nieuw-kinderprogramm...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Delight_(1973_film)

Re: Modern action films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it

#370

Post by throwthrow420 »

anonll394e92 wrote: post #110
f154hfds wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your honesty. For the last several years I have supported a charity that helps women to escape this cycle of oppression in Romania. I've heard some of their stories, how difficult life is after they've found a way out. All I can say is that victims abound despite appearances.

Thank you. I believe I have enough experience to tell if a girl is enjoying her time with me or not and go out of my way to make her feel good (I perform oral and am generally not defensive). When I say I look for 'permissive' girls I mean I look for girls that permit kissing and "sports fucking". I don't choke / slap / hair pull or whatever. If a girl gives signs that she doesn't enjoy sports-fucking I don't persist…

I think many people could benefit by reading “Revolting Prostitutes” by Juno Mac and Molly Smith. I covers how sex worker’s rights are related to worker’s rights in general.

> I believe I have enough experience to tell if a girl is enjoying her time with me

Do consider that it is in the service provider’s interest to make you think this. When you are paying money for experience, you can’t use how the experience makes you feel to evaluate how the employees feel about it.

> If a girl gives signs that she doesn't enjoy [it, I] never visit her again.

Can’t you see how in this situation it would be in the sex worker’s interest to give signs she enjoys your thing? If she does not, she looses a customer.

I’m not saying that prostitution is wrong or that some sex workers don’t enjoy they job. It just might be the only realistic option for someone.

Some things that a country could do so that people have the option to not be a prostitute:

* food and housing for people who need it

* equal pay and career opportunity for men and women

* drug treatment programs that don’t put people in jail for addiction

See “Revolting Prostitutes” for more details

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