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Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

latimes.com

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Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#451

Post by stjohnswarts »

rayiner wrote: post #211
dehrmann wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree, the recent Texas power outage is the result of a free-market system for energy. California hasn't done well with energy either, but for different reasons. My point is that funny things happen when markets fail and when empathy-driven policy goes too far.

You’re uninformed about the situation in Texas. Electricity is regulated in Texas more of less the same way as its regulated everywhere else: regulated monopolies control the distribution grid, and power is generated in regulated markets and fed into the grid. That basic mechanism is used not only in the US, but Europe too: https://fsr.eui.eu/electricity-markets-in-the-eu/ (“Please note that while in the EU electrici…

Your last sentence is exactly what regulations are for. it's like you destroyed your whole argument with that last sentence deliberately?

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#452

Post by babesh »

reducesuffering wrote: post #443
babesh wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was born in and grew up in SF. I still go once in awhile. SF got a lot worse. I didn’t grow up with tents surrounding City Hall nor tents lining the sidewalk in the Tenderloin. Go look at Polk Street in Nob Hill. Go look at Van Ness. Go look at the Castro. Those aren’t SOMA or the Tenderloin. I saw a smashed bus shelter right off Van Ness. I saw graffiti and garbage on the sidewalk in Nob Hill. There are multiple t…

> The towns and cities on the Peninsula are probably laughing at SF. All the homeless are drawn to SF and have disappeared from their sidewalks. Haha absolutely wrong. While not as bad as SF, homeless issues everywhere else in the Bay have also gotten much worse. Mountain View, San Jose, Fremont, Oakland, everywhere.

Nope. It seems better in Belmont, San Carlos, Burlingame, San Mateo, and Millbrae. Don’t notice the homeless hanging around CalTrain stops anymore. There used to be a few tents pitched along the tracks upper Peninsula. I don’t see those anymore. There is zero discussion of tents in social media mid Peninsula. Discussion is only focused on providing food and isolated cases of people losing jobs.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#453

Post by babesh »

reducesuffering wrote: post #443
babesh wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was born in and grew up in SF. I still go once in awhile. SF got a lot worse. I didn’t grow up with tents surrounding City Hall nor tents lining the sidewalk in the Tenderloin. Go look at Polk Street in Nob Hill. Go look at Van Ness. Go look at the Castro. Those aren’t SOMA or the Tenderloin. I saw a smashed bus shelter right off Van Ness. I saw graffiti and garbage on the sidewalk in Nob Hill. There are multiple t…

> The towns and cities on the Peninsula are probably laughing at SF. All the homeless are drawn to SF and have disappeared from their sidewalks. Haha absolutely wrong. While not as bad as SF, homeless issues everywhere else in the Bay have also gotten much worse. Mountain View, San Jose, Fremont, Oakland, everywhere.

Oakland doesn’t count. It has the same policies as SF and has gotten worse.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#454

Post by Redoubts »

bogomipz wrote: post #251
Moodles wrote: post #6

I'm leaving San Francisco next month also. I just see no reason to continue living here. The weather is nice in California, but the city is so mismanaged it's a joke. The homelessness has been an issue for decades now and local politicians always talk about it, but what do they actually do to help? I genuinely have no clue where the high taxes go. I just find it so ironic that San Francisco is a bastion of liberalism…

The article states: >"Most who left San Francisco stayed in the Bay Area economic region, according to the study, and some 80% remained in the stateMost who left San Francisco stayed in the Bay Area economic region, according to the study, and some 80% remained in the state" I'm curious where you fall on the exodus spectrum? Are you leaving California or just SF? Where did you decide to relocate to?

Not OP, but I left SF for NYC.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#455

Post by jariel »

jeffbee wrote: post #219
jariel wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"severely underbuilt for decades " First - there is no such thing as 'under built'. A community can house as many people as it houses - and that's that. There can be an 'amount of new development relative to other places' - but not without a massive dose of 'housing ideology' can you say how much is over or under. Second, the notion that 'there was less building for decades and then a lot of building, but not enough…

> First - there is no such thing as 'under built'. Yes, there is. In a regime of rapidly increasing life expectancy, there is a demographic certainty of future housing needs.

??? Life expectancy, birth rates, net migration are the factors of an overall nation, not not of any city.

Nobody has been able to put forth a single reasonable argument for why SF must tear down their homes and put up apartment buildings other that 'because it should'.

And FYI there is no housing shortage in the US overall, there never has been, housing has expanded commensurate with population.

Not only that - housing is relatively cheap in the US.

Of course there is a lot of demand to live in SF vis-a-vis Sacramento, there always will be, but otherwise, there isn't any reason to build a single home unless the residents want that.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#456

Post by jariel »

ActorNightly wrote: post #328
jariel wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"severely underbuilt for decades " First - there is no such thing as 'under built'. A community can house as many people as it houses - and that's that. There can be an 'amount of new development relative to other places' - but not without a massive dose of 'housing ideology' can you say how much is over or under. Second, the notion that 'there was less building for decades and then a lot of building, but not enough…

My question is did they build houses or apartments? Because building houses generally does nothing for prices. Zoning for managed apartments is the best way to increase the housing supply.

The build massive numbers of apartment buildings that totally changed the nature of the city. And it's still unaffordable.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#457

Post by Redoubts »

ra7 wrote: post #114

Those who left SF Bay Area, do you regret it? Why or why not? I'm currently thinking about moving to a different state as it makes sense financially, but I have an attachment with the Bay Area and what it offers (especially as an immigrant), so I'm hesitant to move. I'm interested to hear experiences of people who recently left.

> Those who left SF Bay Area, do you regret it?

Fuck no.

> Why or why not?

Even during the pandemic, NYC is an infinitely better city. Cheaper, too.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#458

Post by shagie »

selimthegrim wrote: post #436
imtringued wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ve thought about this quite carefully, and I’m convinced we need to kick California out of the union. There is too big of an impedance mismatch with the rest of the country, and it creates and exports too much economic inequality. I agree about one thing. California actively drives economic inequality. Here's my theory about the entire economy of the US transforming since 2000. Thanks to globalization manufacturin…

Why not have Congress pass an amendment striking down Prop 13 or the Supreme Court rule against it?

If I read it correctly, California state constitution amendments are from popular vote in the state - the California legislature can only put them on the ballot to be voted on (and then, its a 2/3 vote there - easier to get 8% of the previous total vote to petition).

The Supreme Court can't rule against it because it is constitutional because it is the constitution.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#459

Post by jeffbee »

jariel wrote: post #455
jeffbee wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First - there is no such thing as 'under built'. Yes, there is. In a regime of rapidly increasing life expectancy, there is a demographic certainty of future housing needs.

??? Life expectancy, birth rates, net migration are the factors of an overall nation, not not of any city. Nobody has been able to put forth a single reasonable argument for why SF must tear down their homes and put up apartment buildings other that 'because it should'. And FYI there is no housing shortage in the US overall, there never has been, housing has expanded commensurate with population. Not only that - hous…

I guess we’re just going to disagree there. In my view it is completely immoral to give birth to people but not build them a place to live. It is as immoral as suggesting that people should leave their city upon retirement, and for the same reason.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#460

Post by babesh »

babesh wrote: post #452
reducesuffering wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The towns and cities on the Peninsula are probably laughing at SF. All the homeless are drawn to SF and have disappeared from their sidewalks. Haha absolutely wrong. While not as bad as SF, homeless issues everywhere else in the Bay have also gotten much worse. Mountain View, San Jose, Fremont, Oakland, everywhere.

Nope. It seems better in Belmont, San Carlos, Burlingame, San Mateo, and Millbrae. Don’t notice the homeless hanging around CalTrain stops anymore. There used to be a few tents pitched along the tracks upper Peninsula. I don’t see those anymore. There is zero discussion of tents in social media mid Peninsula. Discussion is only focused on providing food and isolated cases of people losing jobs.

It may be worse in Mountain View or San Jose, I don’t know. It doesn’t seem worse in Fremont, at least the parts that I go to. Also, my relatives and friends who live there aren’t complaining. My friends who lived in SF were complaining loudly before they moved out.
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