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America is not made for people who pee

nytimes.com

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Re: America is not made for people who pee

#51

Post by dang »

splaytreemap wrote: post #18
sanp wrote: post #6

So, a cop was fired in Oklahoma for citing a 3-year old with a $2500 fine for public urination. Sounds kinda harsh given that you can't get cops fired even for killing unarmed law-abiding civilians. Wonder what happened there (did he piss off the wrong people?).

Cops almost never kill law-abiding citizens in the line of duty, so I doubt you'll be able to find much evidence supporting this claim. And no, you're not a law-abiding citizen if you die resisting arrest after committing a DUI.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Comments like this take the thread noticeably hellward, and we're trying to go the opposite way here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: America is not made for people who pee

#52

Post by dang »

grey-area wrote: post #21
splaytreemap wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cops almost never kill law-abiding citizens in the line of duty, so I doubt you'll be able to find much evidence supporting this claim. And no, you're not a law-abiding citizen if you die resisting arrest after committing a DUI.

I guarantee you have broken some laws, even if unwittingly. So you are not a law-abiding citizen, ergo cops can kill you with impunity. Still OK with that?

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize."

"Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead."

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The GP comment was egregious flamebait and shouldn't have been posted, but by the above three guidelines, this reply shouldn't have been posted either.

Re: America is not made for people who pee

#53

Post by bmn__ »

jimmaswell wrote: post #37
balozi wrote: post #3

Success of public restroom infrastructure hinges more on how people think of themselves and their fellow humans, and less about actual pee and poop needs. America lucks the requisite social contracts.

Lots of places would like to have public restrooms but the people passing out in them leaving needles all over and wrecking them ruin it for everyone else.

That's another symptom of America's lack of the social contract. If the persons who are charged with governing had any semblance of respect for the human dignity, they not only would build public toilets, but also centres staffed with social workers where the addicted have a place away from the public to inject and where the syringes are safely deposed of.

It's called harm prevention and this is cheaper (both in monetary and human capital) than just ignoring the problems.

Re: America is not made for people who pee

#54

Post by bradknowles »

MauroIksem wrote: post #20

I've traveled in europe, asia and africa and the americas and the US by far has the best public restroom infrastructure.

I’ve traveled extensively in the US since the 70s, and with my wife throughout Western Europe between 1999 and 2006, and back in the US since 2006.

During that time, I found no such public restroom facilities in the US. Paid facilities at gas stations, fast food places, restaurants, and various other businesses, yes. But one way or the other, you always paid for those.

I did see a little bit of public restroom facilities in Europe, and they were okay for what you paid for them. But the paid facilities, especially in France and Belgium near the highways, could be little more than holes in the ground with places to put your feet on the sides. We quickly learned to spot trustworthy businesses like McDonalds and other US companies that would have better paid facilities.

Hotels, conference centers, and the like had better paid restroom facilities than any other places I’ve ever seen before or since, but even movie theaters had Madame Pissoir at the door who could be quite rude and offensive if you were in dire need and would be happy to pay once you were done, but you couldn’t wait.

Even here in the US, we continued to carefully look for McDonalds or Starbucks as a sign that here would be good restroom facilities, and that we would be happy to purchase something there so that we could use their restrooms. At least they were never as rude and offensive as Madame Pissoir.

Re: America is not made for people who pee

#55

Post by Daho0n »

MauroIksem wrote: post #20

I've traveled in europe, asia and africa and the americas and the US by far has the best public restroom infrastructure.

Where in Europe? Polen maybe, Scandinavia? Not a chance. Their public restrooms are like their prisons: five star luxury hotels compared to what is in the US. And they are free!

Re: America is not made for people who pee

#56

Post by Daho0n »

david38 wrote: post #16
sanp wrote: post #6

So, a cop was fired in Oklahoma for citing a 3-year old with a $2500 fine for public urination. Sounds kinda harsh given that you can't get cops fired even for killing unarmed law-abiding civilians. Wonder what happened there (did he piss off the wrong people?).

It’s because the target was a three year old. Also, your comparison is way off. Not all police departments are the same. Unarmed doesn’t mean “not a threat” or “can in no way be a threat”. I can simply approach you in an angry manner and be a threat. Does it justify death? No, but a three year old?

An officer from a well functioning and well trained policeforce would not even shoot to kill a knife wielding attacker. They would at most first shoot a warning shot and then maybe a single shot in the leg if they couldn't stop him with pepperspray or a tazer. An unarmed civilian is most definitely not a threat in any way to a real cop (US police doesn't count as a real cop. They are an embarrassment to police everywhere.)

Re: America is not made for people who pee

#57

Post by Daho0n »

akvadrako wrote: post #41
MauroIksem wrote: post #20

I've traveled in europe, asia and africa and the americas and the US by far has the best public restroom infrastructure.

I have traveled a lot and I agree completely. As an american I was raised to always expect public facilities but it's very rare.

I don't know where you have traveled but it is the norm to have free public bathrooms and bathrooms in pretty much all businesses open to the public everywhere in Europe I have visited and they were all free and clean.

Re: America is not made for people who pee

#58

Post by juancn »

The first time I went to the US (around the year 2000), I was surprised by how difficult it was to find a public restroom. Even malls used to have just a couple of restrooms near the food court.

Also, the restrooms didn't match the expected number of people on the building. As if there's no building code in terms of a public place and number of restrooms that must be available.

I was expecting something similar to an airport which is what most countries do in terms of density of public restrooms, but it was much less (I went to Texas, so other states might have been different)

Re: America is not made for people who pee

#59

Post by grey-area »

dang wrote: post #52
grey-area wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee you have broken some laws, even if unwittingly. So you are not a law-abiding citizen, ergo cops can kill you with impunity. Still OK with that?

" Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. " " Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead. " " Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html The GP comment was egregious flamebait and shouldn't have been posted, but by the above three guideline…

I'm unsure what would happen if I flag something nowadays, and whether it'll mean another shadow vote ban, so I tend just to comment - my opinions are congruent with the mods in this case, but not always. Unfortunately leaving comments like this unchallenged (as it was at the time) also has an impact on the tone of the site.

Sorry for the lowering the tone by responding to this, I do agree it's a somewhat pointless tangent.

Re: America is not made for people who pee

#60

Post by Bancakes »

Daho0n wrote: post #56
david38 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because the target was a three year old. Also, your comparison is way off. Not all police departments are the same. Unarmed doesn’t mean “not a threat” or “can in no way be a threat”. I can simply approach you in an angry manner and be a threat. Does it justify death? No, but a three year old?

An officer from a well functioning and well trained policeforce would not even shoot to kill a knife wielding attacker. They would at most first shoot a warning shot and then maybe a single shot in the leg if they couldn't stop him with pepperspray or a tazer. An unarmed civilian is most definitely not a threat in any way to a real cop (US police doesn't count as a real cop. They are an embarrassment to police everyw…

Warning shots, single shots to the leg, and all less lethal short of 40mm grenade to the head/neck has proven wildly inconsistent at stopping an attacker. Remember the Tueller drill, there is no time for reaction, only action - that means to shoot until the aggressor is incapacitated. This is the time proven way of preventing dead or injured police officers (and civilians!).

It's just that police in Europe and Asia don't really face dangerous and determined criminals.

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