Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

forkast.news

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 128 posts

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#81

Post by 8note »

aww_dang wrote: post #38
feawwefawefa wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people on HN like to whine about the environment. they love the statistic that bitcoin uses more energy than argentina. ask them 6 months ago (when bitcoin still used the same amount of energy as argentina) and they will tell you how much they love btc and decentralization.

Personally, I am of the opinion that individuals should be able to use electricity however they choose, provided they pay a market rate for it. Interesting to see HN praising the CCP's policies in this regard.

They should be paying me for the increased carbon dioxide they're putting in my air though

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#82

Post by 8note »

aww_dang wrote: post #74
sudosysgen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Québec. We have state run electricty, which turns a profit and isn't subsidized. It's by far the cheapest in North America, and the essentially the cheapest unsubsidized energy in the world. The grid is also 99.9% renewable (everywhere except for some islands) So the idea that price controls and nationalization somehow causes inefficiency in this case is just a tale economists tell themselves. In the real w…

If Quebec is running a profitable business, there's no argument in what I wrote? The most I could say is that there may be unseen costs of nationalization. I.e. it could be cheaper still if privatized, but that is further afield from the discussion. In HN parlance I suppose I could demand that you provide evidence and sources proving the same power stations wouldn't operate more efficiently under private ownership, b…

Profitable for the province is different from profitable for a business.

Even if hydro itself isn't making more revenue than its direct costs, if it increases the tax revenues for the government by better uses of the electricity, the government is still making a profit

There are unseen benefits to nationalization too, not just costs

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#83

Post by tomatotomato37 »

incrudible wrote: post #66
rtkwe wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially when China constitutes about 70% of the hashrate for bitcoin. (I'm also dubious of how they know what is powering the mining operations inside China, most of the power in China still comes from coal.)

"Around 60% to 70% of bitcoin is currently mined in China, where more than two-thirds of electricity generation comes from coal. But bitcoin mining facilities are concentrated in remote areas of China with rich hydro or wind resources (cheap electricity), with about 80% of Chinese bitcoin mining occurring in hydro-rich Sichuan province. These mining facilities may be absorbing overcapacity in some of these regions, u…

Assuming China like most other developed countries has something resembling a unified grid the adjacency of consumption to renewable resources means nothing. Part of that power will still end up comeing from coal, even if it has to take a contrived path through multiple interconnects and load-balancers to do so

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#84

Post by cheaprentalyeti »

Geee wrote: post #30
exabrial wrote: post #8

I hope we see more Bitcoin mining bans elsewhere. I definitely like digital currencies, but mined currencies need to go.

They're banning coal-powered bitcoin mining. This is good for Bitcoin.

I don't think they're banning coal powered bitcoin mining. They're banning it in Inner Mongolia in particular. They're selling their inter-regional political conflicts as environmentalism.

China still built some 40 GW of coal plants last year.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#85

Post by petre »

herbst wrote: post #46
Geee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're banning coal-powered bitcoin mining. This is good for Bitcoin.

Countries like germany also heavily depend on coal fpr energy. Thats not a chinese only issue if suggest that.

Except using electricity at German prices wouldn't allow one to break even mining Bitcoin. They'd be at a net loss. Also Germany will have to clean up its act by 2038, 8 years later than most of the EU.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#86

Post by cheaprentalyeti »

space_rock wrote: post #60
bradleyjg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s subsidized power and these “businesses” are effectively just reselling that power to foreigners at a markup. No government would want to participate in that.

Nothing is worse for the environment then subsidized coal power. Uneconomical environmental destruction

It works for them. We still have a trillion dollar a year trade deficit with China overall. (And likely to get worse, now that the mysterious-it-came-from-wet-markets-honest non-Chinese virus has defeated Trump).

Everyone in the modern western Tech scene believes they're environmentalists and believes all the modified-limited-hangouts in order to continue to pretend they are. Meanwhile their iphones were made in a country that added 40 gw of coal power last year.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#87

Post by petre »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #16
oarsinsync wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s a digital currency without mining, and how does it differ from regular fiat money today?

> What’s a digital currency without mining... I take it GP meant mining without gigantic electricity consumption: so not proof-of-stake but proof-of-work > ... and how does it differ from regular fiat money today? There was a discussion here a few days ago where people were trying to determine how many swiss bills were circulating... Someone commented on the irony, in a thread hating on cryptocurrencies, that anyone…

There are cryptocurrencies with inflation like PeerCoin. Unfortunately it's also mined.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#88

Post by UncleMeat »

ravenstine wrote: post #36
whoknew1122 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if people's thoughts can change and evolve. I honestly wonder when and how changing your mind became a bad thing. Show me someone whose thoughts or ideas don't evolve and I'll show you someone who's wasting their life.

Could be that, and it can also be that people are capable of being massive hypocrites. Nobody who opposes Bitcoin on environmental grounds has anything to say about the sheer waste and pollution that most of us take part in. If Bitcoin is so bad for using as much energy as Argentina, then we should stop using energy to stream entertainment, which we are doing now more than ever.

Hi there. Huge critic of BTC emissions here. I give a tremendous amount of money annually to nonprofits seeking to curb global emissions.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#89

Post by [deleted] »

aboringusername wrote: post #25
pavlov wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would vote in the EU elections for almost any parliamentary group that makes this a priority. This is a perfect example of an issue where union-level decision making is required to curb a destructive activity.

Can you explain in your opinion how mining is a "destructive activity" yet before there were plenty of other "destructive activity". Money is destructive, period. And plastic.

[deleted]

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#90

Post by [deleted] »

latchkey wrote: post #55
websites2323 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your occupation is terrible for the environment and there’s no sleight of hand with localized power sources that will change that. All these dreams of decentralized money will be worth nothing when global warming and the associated chaos kick in.

I thought this thread from Dan Held was really good: https://twitter.com/danheld/status/1351235080103096331 It starts off with: "1/ Bitcoin’s energy consumption is not “wasteful.” - It is much more efficient than existing financial systems - No one has the moral authority to tell you what is a good or bad use of energy (ex: watching the Kardashians) Let's debunk this FUD"

[deleted]
Post reply on HN