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Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

latimes.com

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Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#411

Post by ajmurmann »

pbourke wrote: post #368
ralusek wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberalism isn't a leftist ideology, why on earth would you expect a liberal to be a leftist?

The terms have lost all meaning in contemporary American discourse. “Socialist”, “liberal”, “leftist”, “progressive” are just used either as a pejorative or arbitrary categorical unrelated to any prior representation. To a “progressive”, “liberal” is a pejorative. To a “liberal”, “leftists” are the enemy. To “the right”, all 4 words mean the same thing and are interchangeable in usage.

Unfortunately this is true. The two-party system is removing all nuance from arguments, forces everything into one of two boxes and it's dividing the country. The number one issue to solve is election reform. We desperately need an election system that's not extremely prone to the spoiler effect. If we don't get this, politics will only become more of a shit show or worse we might see more violence. It's encouraging to see that places like Fargo and Saint Louis have success in adopting STAR voting.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#412

Post by maya24 »

the_only_law wrote: post #151
ditonal wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend lived in SF for 3 years, then left for a year. He called me to say, “dude what happened to SF? Apparently it’s all shit and needles now.” I had to explain to him that nothing has changed. He was just reading sensationalized media. I live in SF, I would like the city cleaned up, more accountability for taxes, more focus on tax payers over homeless. But at the same time, SF represents liberalism in the US so…

> The mayor of Miami literally bought a billboard right now begging people to go to his city. Going on a bit of a tangent here, but I moved to central FL a couple years ago and I tend to browse jobs from time to time just to see whats around me, so while I don't live in Miami, specifically, I have looked around. Looking at Florida is weird, compared to some other places I've been, the market in FL seems rather disapp…

Miami has had a nice cultural revolution in the last 10 years or so. A lot more art and culture than before and tons of things to do besides partying on South Beach. Many areas of Miami feel more like SF in LA than Trump country.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#413

Post by maya24 »

mcguire wrote: post #222
Kalium wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over-dependency on a single industry, unwillingness to diversify, and an arrogant assumption that the same work could never be done elsewhere. Add in highways, commuting, and an infrastructure maintenance death spiral as domestic car production lost its major advantages. Rising crime added to the death spiral, as people who could moved out and the general deprivation of Detroit grew. Many of the suburbs developed the…

" Over-dependency on a single industry, unwillingness to diversify, and an arrogant assumption that the same work could never be done elsewhere. " Like San Francisco?

San Francisco is still a major financial hub by the way.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#414

Post by dragonwriter »

manigandham wrote: post #405
dragonwriter wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a false narrative, though what is a false narrative is that it's directly because of prop 47, and not retailers adopting policies directed at limiting employees confronting thieves, resulting in fewer being caught. To the extent prop 47 plays a role, it's because police departments deemphasize followup enforcement on misdemeanors, though there is no legal requirement that they do so: a crime shouldn't need a…

Do you seriously think retailers had their employees confronting thieves? This isn't a recent change, they were always instructed to call the police instead of interfering. And if crime isn't being prosecuted then why would police waste limited resources on catching thieves just to see them out on the street with no consequence? You are looking at this backwards. It's all directly because of policy changes, because t…

> Do you seriously think retailers had their employees confronting thieves?

Well, since I've known people who worked as loss prevention managers and who did it, and since the news article on the issue posted elsewhere in the thread specifically identified that retailers have changed policies in ways which reduce that, yes, I am reasonably think that they were doing so before and are doing so less now.

> And if crime isn't being prosecuted

To the extent that is a problem in some places (which no source I've seen indicates it is generally, though I've seen some indicating it may be in San Francisco specifically), then that too is not a requirement of the law (misdemeanors are not nonprosecutable) and the same criticism shifts within law enforcement to DAs, it's still not the law’s fault.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#415

Post by dragonwriter »

masonic wrote: post #357
dragonwriter wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a false narrative, though what is a false narrative is that it's directly because of prop 47, and not retailers adopting policies directed at limiting employees confronting thieves, resulting in fewer being caught. To the extent prop 47 plays a role, it's because police departments deemphasize followup enforcement on misdemeanors, though there is no legal requirement that they do so: a crime shouldn't need a…

Police don't choose whether to drop charges. The vast majority of nonviolent crimes here now have no police involvement whatsoever. They just have you file an online report for you to forward to your insurance (if any). This includes catalytic converter thefts that can cost over $2000 alone to resolve, let alone other property loss plus vehicle damage.

> Police don't choose whether to drop charges.

Police do choose whether and what resources to devote to investigation after a report. If they never identify an offender because they don't do anything with what they are given by retailers, there are no charges to drop.

> The vast majority of nonviolent crimes here now have no police involvement whatsoever.

Which is a choice by the police.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#416

Post by plorkyeran »

abernard1 wrote: post #216
birken wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF is over 5x denser than Dallas, which is the densest major city in Texas. The problem with homelessness is people can't afford to live in homes. It is a lot easier to avoid homelessness when you have essentially endless space to build housing.

> It is a lot easier to avoid homelessness when you have essentially endless space to build housing. This is hyperbole and dramatically wrong. It's one of those statistics that's repeated in Bay Area circles but has no bearing on reality. Houston metro is almost the same size as the entire 9-county Bay Area metro: 7M population, 10K sq mi. Bay Area 9 county: 7.4M population, 7K sq mi. Houston metro pop density = 0.7K…

You've taken a statement about SF and applied it to an area 140 times the size of SF. Obviously that will result in it being nonsense.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#417

Post by ravieira »

azinman2 wrote: post #200
chrisseaton wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the problems are massively overblown For all the places I have worked in and visited through my life, including poor countries in Africa, Europe, Russia, and places as extreme as Afghanistan, the only place I have ever seen someone openly defecate in the street is San Francisco. And I've seen it many times in San Francisco. It's not overblown. Your reference points have been distorted. It's not normal. People d…

I’ve seen it in Vietnam, India, and heard about seeing it in Brazil from friends. I’m sure it’s more common than you think, we just have a very embolden and large homeless population with not enough public toilets and way too many substance abuse / mental health issues.

I was born and raised in Brazil where I lived until 25 in a major city with no shortage of poverty and inequality. I have never seen or heard reports of people defecating on the street. Though at least in the northeast it’s common for men to urinate.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#418

Post by throwaway6734 »

ajmurmann wrote: post #142
throwaway6734 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NIMBYism is a scourge

It's puzzling to me that NIMBYism seems so common among people who identify as liberal. It's clearly just another way of kicking away the ladder and is inherently with the stated goals of liberalism. At least neo-liberals seems to have gotten this one 100% correct.

LINOs

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#419

Post by abernard1 »

plorkyeran wrote: post #416
abernard1 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is a lot easier to avoid homelessness when you have essentially endless space to build housing. This is hyperbole and dramatically wrong. It's one of those statistics that's repeated in Bay Area circles but has no bearing on reality. Houston metro is almost the same size as the entire 9-county Bay Area metro: 7M population, 10K sq mi. Bay Area 9 county: 7.4M population, 7K sq mi. Houston metro pop density = 0.7K…

You've taken a statement about SF and applied it to an area 140 times the size of SF. Obviously that will result in it being nonsense.

SF is the size of downtown Houston, and Houston does not have these problems.

Applying statistics from SF, which is effectively the "downtown" of the Bay Area is not a valid comparison. The population density of San Francisco is not impressive, period. Downtown Houston is much more developed than San Francisco, and that would be a more valid comparison for density.

But this also doesn't get to the main point which was cost and housing density. Cost per sq/ft in Houston (excluding the lots, which are enormous compared to the Bay Area) is $107. Median house price in downtown Houston is $310K.

Costs per sq/ft in the Bay Area are anywhere between $280 and $800. It's not a close comparison in price at all, despite being a comparable density.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#420

Post by jeffbee »

maya24 wrote: post #336
jeffbee wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name a tech company with an office in the Tenderloin.

Microsoft, Twitter, Dolby are 3 who share an intersection! Square and Uber just a block away.

Like the other people who replied, you flunked geography. None of these companies are anywhere near the Tenderloin.
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