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Ubuntu Makes Flutter ‘Default Choice’ for Future Desktop Apps

omgubuntu.co.uk

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Re: Ubuntu Makes Flutter ‘Default Choice’ for Future Desktop Apps

#11

Post by candiddevmike »

riffraff wrote: post #5
eatonphil wrote: post #3

> After all, people have been predicting that web-based tech will be the next big thing on desktop for as long as I’ve been writing this blog — i.e. eons. And yet it never quite happens. Electron apps, for instance, are, like Flutter, popular with web devs but desktop users? Well, they’re less keen. Lost me here. I don't think most users care whether their apps run Electron or .NET or Python/QT or whatever so long as…

I think what is meant is that while some electron apps are popular in the developer demographic (i.e. VS Code) the average desktop user does not run many of then, and is more likely to use desktop apps written in non-web technologies (VLC, Transmission, Office, and whatever it is people use these days)

As far as I know Discord, Skype, and Slack are all electron based. Office is mostly used online.

Electron is a really easy way to add Linux support to your app.

Re: Ubuntu Makes Flutter ‘Default Choice’ for Future Desktop Apps

#12

Post by ta988 »

adamcstephens wrote: post #8
eatonphil wrote: post #3

> After all, people have been predicting that web-based tech will be the next big thing on desktop for as long as I’ve been writing this blog — i.e. eons. And yet it never quite happens. Electron apps, for instance, are, like Flutter, popular with web devs but desktop users? Well, they’re less keen. Lost me here. I don't think most users care whether their apps run Electron or .NET or Python/QT or whatever so long as…

Electron apps use more CPU and drain the battery faster on my Linux laptop. Users may not care what framework renders their apps, but if they were running more than one or two electron instances they may start to notice their battery life is awful. It’s worse on Linux already, there’s no reason to make it even worse.

Faster than? Do you compare applications that do similar things?

Re: Ubuntu Makes Flutter ‘Default Choice’ for Future Desktop Apps

#13

Post by [deleted] »

candiddevmike wrote: post #11
riffraff wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what is meant is that while some electron apps are popular in the developer demographic (i.e. VS Code) the average desktop user does not run many of then, and is more likely to use desktop apps written in non-web technologies (VLC, Transmission, Office, and whatever it is people use these days)

As far as I know Discord, Skype, and Slack are all electron based. Office is mostly used online. Electron is a really easy way to add Linux support to your app.

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu Makes Flutter ‘Default Choice’ for Future Desktop Apps

#14

Post by josteink »

I guess that makes Dart a less dead language than it used to be, but from what I can tell there’s almost no momentum around Dart at all.

Basing your future applications on a language which seemingly is already slipping into its coffin (even discounting the regular Google discontinuing thing), seems like a really weird choice.

Re: Ubuntu Makes Flutter ‘Default Choice’ for Future Desktop Apps

#15

Post by mark_l_watson »

As a non-UI developer (I specialize in NLP, deep learning, and knowledge graphs), I like Flutter because it is so easy to make cross platform apps that someone like me can get started quickly. I would expect that experts would still prefer native Android, iOS, desktop, etc. frameworks.

Re: Ubuntu Makes Flutter ‘Default Choice’ for Future Desktop Apps

#16

Post by esrauch »

foepys wrote: post #9
candiddevmike wrote: post #4

I wish they would expand on what's wrong with Qt or GTK. Flutter support on both Windows and Linux is pretty bad. In my opinion, electron is a better choice for cross platform desktop UI--VScode is a shining example of what that can accomplish. And they're in for a lot of work if they want to customize Flutter so it doesn't look material or cupertino. Also, their big contribution to Flutter is getting it on the snap…

I fear the day we replace everything with JavaScript. All JavaScript apps are so unbelievably slow compared to native apps with native toolkits. At work I need to use MS Teams and holy shit it's so slow and if I'm compiling code it's barely usable on an 8 core processor. I had better performance with chat clients in 2002 on hardware that was about 1% as fast as mine today. VS Code is also very slow, you just don't no…

I don't think it's safe to generalize "x is slow and electron, y is fast and native" to mean "native is fast". Electron lowering barrier to entry also means it's used by projects who aren't going to carefully profile their app no matter what, so the same app written as a native app would also be garbage. At least some of it is "correlation not causation"

And for your chat example, when I was at IBM the Sametime chat native app couldn't even accept single line incoming text without grinding a several thousand dollar machine to a halt. Bad software is going to be bad no matter what language it's written in.

Re: Ubuntu Makes Flutter ‘Default Choice’ for Future Desktop Apps

#17

Post by vbezhenar »

candiddevmike wrote: post #4

I wish they would expand on what's wrong with Qt or GTK. Flutter support on both Windows and Linux is pretty bad. In my opinion, electron is a better choice for cross platform desktop UI--VScode is a shining example of what that can accomplish. And they're in for a lot of work if they want to customize Flutter so it doesn't look material or cupertino. Also, their big contribution to Flutter is getting it on the snap…

IMO they are bidding on Flutter hoping that it'll become next big thing replacing Android. It'll allow for easy porting mobile apps to Linux.

Time will tell whether they're right or not. They made some failed bids in the past (Mir, upstart), but at least they're trying to move.

Re: Ubuntu Makes Flutter ‘Default Choice’ for Future Desktop Apps

#18

Post by darkwater »

josteink wrote: post #14

I guess that makes Dart a less dead language than it used to be, but from what I can tell there’s almost no momentum around Dart at all. Basing your future applications on a language which seemingly is already slipping into its coffin (even discounting the regular Google discontinuing thing), seems like a really weird choice.

How many 100% Canonical applications are there in an Ubuntu install? The installer and... maybe the repository management UI? I mean, it's clearly an announcement to make Google happy and try to help giving Flutter some momentum but hardly a defining decision for Ubuntu as a desktop.

Re: Ubuntu Makes Flutter ‘Default Choice’ for Future Desktop Apps

#19

Post by zodiakzz »

foepys wrote: post #9
candiddevmike wrote: post #4

I wish they would expand on what's wrong with Qt or GTK. Flutter support on both Windows and Linux is pretty bad. In my opinion, electron is a better choice for cross platform desktop UI--VScode is a shining example of what that can accomplish. And they're in for a lot of work if they want to customize Flutter so it doesn't look material or cupertino. Also, their big contribution to Flutter is getting it on the snap…

I fear the day we replace everything with JavaScript. All JavaScript apps are so unbelievably slow compared to native apps with native toolkits. At work I need to use MS Teams and holy shit it's so slow and if I'm compiling code it's barely usable on an 8 core processor. I had better performance with chat clients in 2002 on hardware that was about 1% as fast as mine today. VS Code is also very slow, you just don't no…

>VS Code is also very slow, you just don't notice it as much on today's machines.

Seemed to be running great on Core 2 Duo machines of the kids learning coding at a remote village I visited recently.

Re: Ubuntu Makes Flutter ‘Default Choice’ for Future Desktop Apps

#20

Post by Barrin92 »

riffraff wrote: post #5
eatonphil wrote: post #3

> After all, people have been predicting that web-based tech will be the next big thing on desktop for as long as I’ve been writing this blog — i.e. eons. And yet it never quite happens. Electron apps, for instance, are, like Flutter, popular with web devs but desktop users? Well, they’re less keen. Lost me here. I don't think most users care whether their apps run Electron or .NET or Python/QT or whatever so long as…

I think what is meant is that while some electron apps are popular in the developer demographic (i.e. VS Code) the average desktop user does not run many of then, and is more likely to use desktop apps written in non-web technologies (VLC, Transmission, Office, and whatever it is people use these days)

Slack, Spotify, Signal and Whatsapp desktop, Skype, Discord, MS Teams are all built on web tech. I think even Office 365 nowadays has a lot of the UI stuff written in react native.

A lot of older linux software is non-web based but that's not the average desktop user.

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