NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap • Hacker News Board

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#441

Post by NiceWayToDoIT » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:29 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #413

NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just simply stating, if it (bionic intelligence) already exist - another (artificial) can be built. I am not saying anything about existing models, ways or methods, just that if exist - it is possible to build one "again" so to say.

I still don't think we've proven that at all. Unless you believe in god, then no one has ever "built" an intelligence. The human brain is the result of millions of years of evolutionary pressures.

Regardless how it is created, if it exist it can be made artificially again - it is just matter of time.

Same as with bacteria. 'In May 2019, researchers, in a milestone effort, reported the creation of a new synthetic (possibly artificial) form of viable life,' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_life

Give human enough time and resources, we can replicate anything, that is in our nature.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#442

Post by TeMPOraL » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:31 PM UTC

NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #285

So, lets think, we have following issues: - Climate change - Artificial general intelligence - Biotechnology risk - Ecological collapse - Molecular nanotechnology - Nuclear holocaust - Overpopulation - Global pandemic - ... Most of them caused by way we use our energy and time. Oh, yes we also have excess of computing power ... hm what shell we do? Solution: Let spend even more energy on large calculations in order t…

Some of the items on this list - namely AGI, biotech, nanotech - are actually not problems; they're dangerous, but very desirable developments.

Agree with the gist of your comment, though.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#443

Post by qqii » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #285

So, lets think, we have following issues: - Climate change - Artificial general intelligence - Biotechnology risk - Ecological collapse - Molecular nanotechnology - Nuclear holocaust - Overpopulation - Global pandemic - ... Most of them caused by way we use our energy and time. Oh, yes we also have excess of computing power ... hm what shell we do? Solution: Let spend even more energy on large calculations in order t…

This idea that we need to be perfect optimisers is foolish and pure whataboutism . You could say the same for any recreational, non productive activity.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#444

Post by iambateman » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

Consider baseball cards. I own 5000 cards with a total value of about $50.

A few NFT’s will be very very valuable. The first one George Clooney sells. The first one ever created. The 6 Banksy sells under a pseudonym that no one realizes for a year. The song Taylor Swift limits to 1 copy.

But almost all of them will be worthless.

The difference between baseball cards and NFT’s is that for generations, no one really cared about baseball cards. It wasn’t until the 80’s that people realized they had significant collectible value. By comparison, NFT’s have tremendous cultural hype.

Some people will do very well with this bubble, as a few do in every bubble. But it will be very few.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#445

Post by dbspin » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

drawkbox wrote: post #174

Short term view NFTs look like a scam or a joke. Long term view we will need digital ownership especially when it comes to content or individual data/items. When the augmented reality spectacle takes over and everyone is looking through AR glasses, rather than through a small device but through their own eyes, digital collectibles will have more value. Shared spaces with others will have collectibles that only exist…

Here's the thing most people on Hackernews have missed. Owning an NFT does not usually mean you own the copyright to the image, and this is a good thing.

It's not introducing artificial scarcity, its purchasing collectable bragging rights that allow an artist to 'monetize' their work, while retaining the copyright.

Here's the relevant line from the Rarible TOS "In the absence of an express legal agreement between the creator of a Collectible and purchasers of the Collectible, there cannot be any guarantee or assurance that the purchase or holding of the Collectible confers any license to or ownership of the Collectible Metadata or other intellectual property associated with the Collectible or any other right or entitlement, notwithstanding that User may rightfully own or possess the NFT associated with the Collectible. " Link - https://rarible.com/terms.pdf

Here's one example of an attempt to standardise this contract - https://www.niftylicense.org/

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#446

Post by bhay » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

andreaorru wrote: post #363

samim wrote: post #295

NFT's are Bullshit: https://samim.io/p/2021-03-05-non-fungible-tokens-nft-are-bu... In Summary: 1. The NFT doubles down on the worst of copyright, the property metaphor, & tries to impose old ideas of scarcity & exclusion on the digital realm, where both are obsolete. 2.NFTs are an absolute ecological disaster

Just want to point out that Ethereum 2.0 will be Proof of Stake, so moving forward the ecological argument is moot.

Exactly! Too many people in this thread are making huge judgements based off a very limited knowledge of what is going on in the blockchain space.

I agree with OPs inference that the art market is going to get over saturated, but ETH ecology is not an argument against NFTs. Plenty of alt-chains exist and interchain marketplaces are being built as we speak.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#447

Post by gorbachev » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #183

drawkbox wrote: post #174

Short term view NFTs look like a scam or a joke. Long term view we will need digital ownership especially when it comes to content or individual data/items. When the augmented reality spectacle takes over and everyone is looking through AR glasses, rather than through a small device but through their own eyes, digital collectibles will have more value. Shared spaces with others will have collectibles that only exist…

Why are we introducing scarcity to digital goods? That's not a good thing and shouldn't be praised! We rail against companies selling cosmetic additions to games. It doesn't add value. We already have "ownership". The legal framework of copyrights, purchase or goods, and licenses. NFTs are barcodes. People are selling cryptographic barcodes.

"We rail against companies selling cosmetic additions to games. It doesn't add value."

That's not quite true. There are sub-groups of gamers, in particular with racing games (e.g. Forza Motorsport), who do value cosmetic additions quite a bit.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#448

Post by meowface » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

NoOneNew wrote: post #431

arcticbull wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NFTs make perfect sense for representing a claim on things that can be used, like event tickets or in-game virtual goods. There’s absolutely no reason for that to be decentralized, only one party can honor the tokens anyways. Like most things crypto they don’t actually make sense for anything.

When it comes to in game items... why should one game honor another game's items? EVE Online and World of Warcraft dont exist in the same context. Even if you did it between Guild Wars, Elder Scrolls online and WoW, you still cant interchange the items due to stats, style and general game mechanics let alone the coding rework to have these items function the same way between games. If there was an mmo framework that…

In my opinion, it only has the possibility of making any sense if a game itself is (largely or entirely) an Ethereum dapp. I think a WoW NFT would make zero sense (and I think Blizzard would agree, barring the hypothetical potential of trying to exploit a fad purely for extra profit), but an NFT representing an asset in your Ethereum-based Second Life "d-game" could possibly make some sense. I know some dapp games exist and more will be made, but I'm not sure how practical or fun they are or can be.

Even then, there are still a lot of questions: what makes the d-game actually interesting/novel/unique/fun and an appropriate, creative, and clever use of a decentralized blockchain.

And although I mostly agree with this essay and the Medium essay it's referencing about environmental impact, I do think NFTs have some potential use cases outside of games, art, and bilking greedy people. I think those use cases just have to be a little further along the "blockchain from end-to-end" spectrum.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#449

Post by notahacker » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

incrudible wrote: post #416

This repeats the same mistaken belief that "energy is precious". In reality, there's lots of energy that is either worthless or has negative value. There currently is no economical solution for storing this energy and it's the biggest impediment for renewable energy. Many bubbles have left lasting improvements to infrastructure. The railroad bubble brought railroads. The telegraph bubble wired up the country. The int…

Demand for energy efficiency improvements already exists. All PoW adds is a new form of demand designed to scale up to consume all energy efficiency improvements; every time energy prices fall miners are incentivised to increase the rate of mining (unless the block rewards or coin market price also falls)

The Internet bubble was people making infrastructure available in the hope people would use it, not people converting DDoS attacks into money and claiming that stopping others using that bandwidth would be worth it in the long run if it lead to the invention of servers and cables that scaled to infinite capacity

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#450

Post by qqii » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

samim wrote: post #295

NFT's are Bullshit: https://samim.io/p/2021-03-05-non-fungible-tokens-nft-are-bu... In Summary: 1. The NFT doubles down on the worst of copyright, the property metaphor, & tries to impose old ideas of scarcity & exclusion on the digital realm, where both are obsolete. 2.NFTs are an absolute ecological disaster

The unique expression of ownership is novel, it really depends on how they're legally interpreted to conclude if they're bad.

If you interpret them literally they're a better form of copyright that what currently exists. It accepts that digital recreations are easy and doesn't seek to prevent them yet still provides scarcity and reward for the effort in producing it.

The NFT of Jack Dorsey's tweet is interpreted to captures some essence of the time, effort and manpower that went into creating twitter the platform.