NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap • Hacker News Board

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#341

Post by NiceWayToDoIT » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #325

NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #285

So, lets think, we have following issues: - Climate change - Artificial general intelligence - Biotechnology risk - Ecological collapse - Molecular nanotechnology - Nuclear holocaust - Overpopulation - Global pandemic - ... Most of them caused by way we use our energy and time. Oh, yes we also have excess of computing power ... hm what shell we do? Solution: Let spend even more energy on large calculations in order t…

> - Artificial general intelligence Not only we don't have AGI but there is an ongoing discussion whether it's possible to have it at all.

If we had it (AI), talking about dangers of having it, would be too late (as human intelligence cannot argue with god intelligence)

It is simple, as ant cannot contain human, in the same way humans won't be able to contain AGI. Can it exist, yes it can - simply, can me and you think, yes. In a way we are "device", so therefore, it is possible to make intelligence similar and/or more powerful than our is.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#342

Post by leppr » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 10:28 AM UTC

Joeboy wrote: post #336

pmlnr wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teaching people that being "rich" is not a goal would help in the progress. The goal is enough: a point when one still yearns, so they can progress, but they don't suffer or live in fear for losing warmth, shelter, food, etc. But this idea seems far from the majority of the US mindset, and it's polluting many parts of the world as well.

"Shelter" sounds like a modest expectation, but at least for me, and a lot of other people, a decent level of "shelter" requires you to be pretty well off. The average house here in the UK costs £~305k, so a mortgage on that requires like 30k deposit + 60k income, which means being a top 10% earner. I've no real aspiration to be "rich" in a superyacht sense, but I would like to be able to remain in my home city and o…

Good point. In most modern cities, the only individualistic solution to escape eternal rent-slavery (forgive the strong word) is to become rich.

A collectivist solution would be to coordinate with other citizens to abolish the building/zoning restrictions and savings devaluation enforced by local and national governments, that cause the constant real estate price inflation in the first place.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#343

Post by Traster » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 10:28 AM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #131

friedman23 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complete misunderstanding of what an NFT does. The content isn't protected by the NFT, ownership is.

Neither the content nor the ownership is protected by the NFT. The NFT has literally no connection to the content at all, except that someone said, "Hey, buy this and you own the 'original'!" Except in all things digital, "original" means absolutely nothing. There's a guy who has been selling property on the moon[1]. This is exactly the same thing. 1. https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/03/25/meet-the-man...

That guy selling plots on the moon is an idiot. If he were selling NFTs for ownership of the moon he’d be a multimillionaire by now.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#344

Post by DaiPlusPlus » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 10:29 AM UTC

Joeboy wrote: post #336

pmlnr wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teaching people that being "rich" is not a goal would help in the progress. The goal is enough: a point when one still yearns, so they can progress, but they don't suffer or live in fear for losing warmth, shelter, food, etc. But this idea seems far from the majority of the US mindset, and it's polluting many parts of the world as well.

"Shelter" sounds like a modest expectation, but at least for me, and a lot of other people, a decent level of "shelter" requires you to be pretty well off. The average house here in the UK costs £~305k, so a mortgage on that requires like 30k deposit + 60k income, which means being a top 10% earner. I've no real aspiration to be "rich" in a superyacht sense, but I would like to be able to remain in my home city and o…

The solution is simple: build more houses to increase supply. It needs to be said: there is a drastic shortage of decent housing in the UK. The cost of building a new house is approaching less than half the final sale price (if not even less) simply due to pressure from scarcity.

Why aren’t people building as many new houses as there’s clearly demand? Numerous factors: greenbelt laws, height restrictions, “Right to light”, NIMBYism, etc. I don’t believe I’ve seen either major political party advance a policy of making it easier to build new houses - or tall tower blocks (the nice kind, not the 1960s council flag blocks), I suspect because it would result in immediate uproar from the Daily Mail-reading types who can’t bear to see their house-values fall (I think Sunday Observer types would be a bit miffed too, if not about house prices then certainly the ecological impact: having lived in multiple countries in my life I noticed the “rural-rights” types that advocate preserving hedgerows and rambling access have a considerably larger influence in UK politics compared to other countries).

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#345

Post by erosenbe0 » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 10:29 AM UTC

pwm wrote: post #263

127 wrote: post #175

Why can't NFTs be done without a blockchain? Please explain. Just add multiple hash, public/private-key cryptography, downsample discrete cosine transform, etc. You can just create a file format and a protocol. Why do you need to dump tons of CO2 into the atmosphere just for this purpose?

Preface: I'm not endorsing NFTs nor do I know much about them and personally I would never buy one. > Why can't NFTs be done without a blockchain? In the physical world it is rather involved to check wether eg. a painting is the original one and not a copy. A simple way to define original is that it came first, before any of its copies. In the digital world the blockchain acts as the canonical timeline. You or anyone…

PoW can't be non-CO2 producing even if solar powered. You still have to contend with e-waste and even the poop of the janitor in your calculations.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#346

Post by ChainOfFools » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 10:33 AM UTC

soulofmischief wrote: post #184

jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #37

NFTs make perfect sense for representing a claim on things that can be used, like event tickets or in-game virtual goods. But as certificates layered on top of collectibles... I'm not so sure. With something like CryptoKitties, you can do something with the tokens (play a virtual pet game). But with something like CryptoPunks you're essentially paying for digital beanie babies, which are worse than real ones since an…

Cryptopunks will always have mindshare as an early mover. In the collectible world it will maintain decent value. More than the original purchase prices. In many worlds, image NFTs you own are displayed with special indicators that they are yours. You can print out a picture of the Mona Lisa, but its not going to have the same impression as the real painting. Original Beanie Babies are worth a fortune. This craze is…

I believe the rarepepewallet project is considerably older (on the crypto time scale) than cryptopunks, maybe the first fully functional NFT market, and operating before the term was even in use. but its less polished and much of the content is laced with various racist smells.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#347

Post by notahacker » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 10:38 AM UTC

Traster wrote: post #339

darawk wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason. Just not a technical one. It becomes obvious when you ask the simple question: why hasn't it already been done? The answer is that it's in no actor's local incentives to create the public commons. Why is there no global market place for reselling digital event tickets? Certainly Ticket master and the other retailers could agree on an open standard protocol, pay for a centralized clearing house, and…

The example you give - reselling tickets, is actually something that is directly something ticket sellers want to discourage, crypto doesn’t solve that.

And there's always a necessary third party to a p2p ticket exchange anyway: the entity that actually puts on the event the ticket gives entry to. Where they want ticket exchange (or at least refunds) to be possible they can do so in a centralised manner and when they don't, they're not a middleman that can be cut out.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#348

Post by ChainOfFools » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 10:38 AM UTC

berberous wrote: post #79

jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #37

NFTs make perfect sense for representing a claim on things that can be used, like event tickets or in-game virtual goods. But as certificates layered on top of collectibles... I'm not so sure. With something like CryptoKitties, you can do something with the tokens (play a virtual pet game). But with something like CryptoPunks you're essentially paying for digital beanie babies, which are worse than real ones since an…

CryptoPunks will be in the MoMA one day. They are a pioneer — and will be valued as such. Derivative works and obvious cash grabs are a bubble and low effort art will trend back to $0.

CryptoPunks is not the first NFT market, not by a long shot. but it has more fortunate market timing and better optics than projects that predated it.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#349

Post by ShinTakuya » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 10:38 AM UTC

sygma wrote: post #332

samim wrote: post #295

NFT's are Bullshit: https://samim.io/p/2021-03-05-non-fungible-tokens-nft-are-bu... In Summary: 1. The NFT doubles down on the worst of copyright, the property metaphor, & tries to impose old ideas of scarcity & exclusion on the digital realm, where both are obsolete. 2.NFTs are an absolute ecological disaster

I know it sounds catchy to say that NFTs are an ecological disaster, but that statement is sensational and not accurate. NFTs do not cause carbon emissions themselves, just like you don't add carbon emissions by occupying a seat on a public transportation bus. The bus is doing its daily route and has a fixed amount of emissions per day whether it has any occupants or not. This analogy breaks quickly, so I wouldn't lo…

This argument has some flaws. So firstly, if nobody got on the bus, the number of buses on the route would be reduced, and depending on circumstances the route would be cancelled. Additionally, the weight of the passenger does slightly increase the power requirement. Ignoring that, while there's minimal direct effect of usage, ultimately the bus is only there due to demand.

Similarly, for block chains, mining only occurs when the thing being mined has value. NFTs would not be mined if people weren't using them. Therefore I would absolutely call them an ecological disaster.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#350

Post by AlunAlun » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 10:43 AM UTC

jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #37

NFTs make perfect sense for representing a claim on things that can be used, like event tickets or in-game virtual goods. But as certificates layered on top of collectibles... I'm not so sure. With something like CryptoKitties, you can do something with the tokens (play a virtual pet game). But with something like CryptoPunks you're essentially paying for digital beanie babies, which are worse than real ones since an…

> in-game virtual goods. But as certificates layered on top of collectibles... I'm not so sure.

I agree - the problem with most NFTs at the moment is that you can't actually do anything with them, apart from trade them.

There are games coming out now (e.g. Goal Revolution[0]) where your NFTs' properties (and, by extension, value) change based on what you do with them (how you use them). If the NFT thing is going to have any future, it needs to follow this example.

[0] https://www.goalrev.com/