Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code • Hacker News Board

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#341

Post by bostonvaulter2 » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 3:07 AM UTC

skohan wrote: post #16

> The key technology here is probably the Language Server Protocol I've been working on an LSP implementation lately, and I have to say so far the reality falls short of the promise. I feel like what LSP should be is a clear, simple interface for implementing IDE-like features for any language, but my experience is that it is incredibly arcane and difficult to use. The main issue is the documentation. It has a high-l…

As an aside, do you know of anywhere for Language Server implementors to gather and swap stories?

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#342

Post by EdwardDiego » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 3:21 AM UTC

thedevelopnik wrote: post #100

parhamn wrote: post #60

I use IntelliJ daily. I think when LSP gets there VSCode can catch up and fill the IDE gap, but until then it doesn't come close to IntelliJ in terms of functionality (though sometimes the perf of IJ makes me want to switch but it has been feeling a lot better on the M1). LSP needs to make 2 major improvements in order to to get wider adoption: - Improve package/runtime support detection (Go modules, npm, virtualenvs…

This is interesting to me and makes me question what I missed on setting up JetBrains products. I moved away from them because of their lack of support for standard tooling like eslint and pep8. It felt like JetBrains editors wanted me to set up lint rules by their spec and I had to set it up in their editor configs. I’ve always been able to add the VSC plugin for a language and everything just works. With JetBrains…

Huh, how long ago was that? I've been recently using the Python plugin in IDEA while fixing up a rather important script, and it's very good at a) telling me when I'm doing bad PEP8 things, and then adding PEP8 compliant formatting when I tell it to autoformat and b) highlighting type hint mismatches.

But this may be a recent improvement, I only work on Python sporadically. My next wish for IDEA's Python plugin is Poetry support.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#343

Post by _the_inflator » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 3:34 AM UTC

mythz wrote: post #30

I used to think VS Code was going to be a threat to JetBrains IDEs considering how fast its iterative development was (thanks in large part to the productivity of JS + Web renderer) but its never seems to quite be able to reach the feature-set, polish & intelligence of JetBrains IDEs. Every IDE function appears to be better implemented in JetBrains, whether it's Code Analysis, Refactoring, Navigation, Running/Debuggi…

I agree with you.

JetBrains IDEs are more thorough, kind of Apple like vertical integration while VS Code is more like Windows: hack everything together.

From a experimental standpoint I highly prefer VS Code, since writing add-ons for JetBrain was too complicated for me in an affordable time. VS Code shines here.

I think that this flexibility really is a different beast. For example, workflow optimization is becoming a thing in software development. In my department, I turned VS Code into a somewhat low-code editor for Web development. This could not have been achieved using JetBrains.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#344

Post by fancyfish » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 3:36 AM UTC

arduinomancer wrote: post #309

sto_hristo wrote: post #299

I almost use always vscode via it's ssh remote development feature. In my experience this thing is flawless and indistinguishable from local development. It's hardly believable how good they've made it. The idea vs. code is something i don't buy. Each has its use cases. Idea has great tools for android development, it's just tightly geared towards that, which is especially good for someone that is not a main android…

Just curious but what is the use case for needing to have your source code on a remote server while you’re editing it?

Enterprise policy is one use case, where devs must use locked down windows workstations to dev on remote Linux hosts.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#345

Post by malkia » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 3:43 AM UTC

layoric wrote: post #301

malkia wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish JetBrains looked exactly into that, and deliver one IDE with above (^^^).

I don’t since you end up with either complex configuration to surface language specific tasks. Having well thought out defaults, tools, etc by separating them out into different IDEs allows for ease of use you couldn’t get with one IDE to rule them all approach. Yes, they sell different IDEs that share a large core but I think the incentives are well aligned for sustainable business focused on developer satisfaction.

Nah. Would have to disagree on this front. These should still work. After all each language/runtime is defined by some underlying template (for example in Visual Studio - .vcxproj for C++, .csproj for C# in .NET, etc.). I don't see reason all of this to work under one Umbreall IDE, even if I have to pay more for it - I'd rather pay for it, than the bundle I'm getting now.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#346

Post by fctorial » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 4:02 AM UTC

zmmmmm wrote: post #282

I'll just keep using Eclipse over here in the corner :-) I guess its a case of sunk investment, but having got to the point of understanding top to bottom how Eclipse works I find that it still beats everything else in terms of presenting me with a completely comprehensive framework for developing at a high level of complexity across multiple languages and environments. Every time I move to another tool I find them b…

> missing these deeper features

examples?

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#347

Post by dhosek » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 4:08 AM UTC

zmmmmm wrote: post #268

Shadonototro wrote: post #130

VSCode won't kill IDEA, but it is a huge warning for Jetbrains They better invest A LOT MORE into solving slow startup and performance issues that are plaguing their IDEs since the beginning Time to ditch Java on the desktop, or invest in a native AOT compiler / or use GraalVM

> slow startup Curious how often you start your IDE? For me it's at most once every few days. But then, I use Eclipse which has amazing multi-project support so there is nearly never a need to restart to switch contexts - its just choosing a different working set ...

Agreed. I think I restart my IDE roughly as often as I reboot my computer which means I've had IDEA and CLion running for about 22 days right now.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#348

Post by dhosek » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 4:11 AM UTC

zmmmmm wrote: post #282

I'll just keep using Eclipse over here in the corner :-) I guess its a case of sunk investment, but having got to the point of understanding top to bottom how Eclipse works I find that it still beats everything else in terms of presenting me with a completely comprehensive framework for developing at a high level of complexity across multiple languages and environments. Every time I move to another tool I find them b…

I used to be an Eclipse zealot. I clung to it even as my co-workers moved to IntelliJ. When I finally made the jump, I found it a huge boost to productivity and stability. I needed for a while on one project to run Eclipse to be able to use an IBM plugin for their rules engine and it was painful how much slower and crash-prone Eclipse was.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#349

Post by dastx » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 4:18 AM UTC

denysvitali wrote: post #43

Nursie wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goland is great if you have IntelliJ muscle memory, I haven't tried using IntelliJ directly for Go though, Imagine it's probably sub-optimal. You do have to pay for Goland also.

I love Goland, and it's honestly one of the products that I very much like to pay for. You can eventually pay a one time fee and use it forever (without updates). I'm also using it for Rust, but it's missing CLion's powerful debugger UI - but I think that gdb is good enough :-)

The Rust plugin for IDEA Ultimate allows for debugging. I've used it while trying to contribute to open source software.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#350

Post by the__alchemist » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 4:30 AM UTC

mythz wrote: post #30

I used to think VS Code was going to be a threat to JetBrains IDEs considering how fast its iterative development was (thanks in large part to the productivity of JS + Web renderer) but its never seems to quite be able to reach the feature-set, polish & intelligence of JetBrains IDEs. Every IDE function appears to be better implemented in JetBrains, whether it's Code Analysis, Refactoring, Navigation, Running/Debuggi…

Even with plugins, VsCode feels like a text editor + syntax highlighter for single files. Jetbrains feels like a project-first language introspection tool. It knows how the languages (Python, Typescript, Rust etc) work, how their functions, data structures, modules etc interact.