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Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

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Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#181

Post by judge2020 »

s5300 wrote: post #157
chrisseaton wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the problems are massively overblown For all the places I have worked in and visited through my life, including poor countries in Africa, Europe, Russia, and places as extreme as Afghanistan, the only place I have ever seen someone openly defecate in the street is San Francisco. And I've seen it many times in San Francisco. It's not overblown. Your reference points have been distorted. It's not normal. People d…

...This actually happens in the downtown of literally every major metro in the US because the US is terrible at dealing with the underlying issues that lead to this sort of thing as a whole. Just because you haven't exposed yourself to it nor seen about it in disgusting sensationalist shitshow that is media in the US doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Is there some CDC or HHS data on public defecation?

e: remove false info

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#182

Post by Kalium »

mdgrech23 wrote: post #156
jinushaun wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that plan will backfire. Look at Detroit. Secondly, everyone will draw different conclusions when looking at the same data.

As a Detroiter I'm curios to hear why you think Detroit went the way it did.

Over-dependency on a single industry, unwillingness to diversify, and an arrogant assumption that the same work could never be done elsewhere. Add in highways, commuting, and an infrastructure maintenance death spiral as domestic car production lost its major advantages. Rising crime added to the death spiral, as people who could moved out and the general deprivation of Detroit grew.

Many of the suburbs developed their own economies, which further encouraged people to move there instead of Detroit proper.

Lots of racism played its part in various ways. Lots of room to debate the precise degree, though the debate is probably not helpful at this point.

These days the high taxes (property and income) and auto insurance rates are big problems.

Only a few of these really apply to SF. Though the arrogance of assuming the good times will roll on forever seems accurate.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#183

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

bob33212 wrote: post #112
birken wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF is over 5x denser than Dallas, which is the densest major city in Texas. The problem with homelessness is people can't afford to live in homes. It is a lot easier to avoid homelessness when you have essentially endless space to build housing.

I certainly can't afford to live on Madison Ave in NYC. But instead of living in a tent on the street on Madison Ave, I live in a city that is much cheaper than NYC and I don't live in the most expensive part of town. Should NYC provide me housing if I start living in a tent on Madison Ave?

As another commenter linked to, they should and will. (SF, in contrast, will not - homeless advocacy groups in California generally aren't fans of shelters, so there's not much pressure to ensure there are enough beds to go around.)

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#184

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mushbino wrote: post #70
Moodles wrote: post #6

I'm leaving San Francisco next month also. I just see no reason to continue living here. The weather is nice in California, but the city is so mismanaged it's a joke. The homelessness has been an issue for decades now and local politicians always talk about it, but what do they actually do to help? I genuinely have no clue where the high taxes go. I just find it so ironic that San Francisco is a bastion of liberalism…

What do they do in the conservative cities that's more successful?

Conservative cities? There isn’t a lot of data, just small cities like Fairbanks and Colorado Springs as well as big city suburbs like Mesa (suburb of Phoenix).

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#185

Post by azinman2 »

dicomdan wrote: post #81
mushbino wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do they do in the conservative cities that's more successful?

Enforcing quality of life laws. It doesn't even have to be a conservative city. Both Boston and Miami look like first world cities compared to SF and LA.

I would classify neither as conservative cities.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#186

Post by Moodles »

efikoman wrote: post #121
Moodles wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that, my friend, is the final reason why I am leaving ;-)

?

I'm saying I also dislike the overly leftist culture in San Francisco, which is another reason why I'm leaving. There are many nice people here, but there are also too many people who I consider too far gone.

Stuff like:

– Non-ironically comparing Trump to Hitler. "At least Hitler listened to his generals!" Umm what? Seriously? And it's not even true: Hitler rarely did. Just... I can't even.

– We can't use the words "blacklist" and "whitelist" now even though they have nothing to do with race. I kid you not, I even heard people talking about "black hole" being "problematic". How patronizing can you be to black people, to think they give a shit? To think this shit is actually helping?

– Non-ironically talking about abolishing the police. If you disagree, you're white privileged and subconsciously racist. No? I just want some statistics first. Evidence it might be a good idea? Pros and cons of the police first? Just not viral videos and emotions?

– Non-ironically talking about socialism, white patriarchy this, equal outcomes that. Partitioning based on race.

– Can't mention Joe Rogan without someone wanting to deplatform, talking about how harmful it is to trans people to even mention the name.

You know what sucks the most? I rarely feel able even to discuss these topics in a calm, sensible way with people. Definitely never at work. Many people are just too emotional here. The culture sucks. So I just keep silent most of the time. You have to figure out if it's safe to say moderate things to someone, like you're in the French resistance or something. And I have relatively liberal views on most topics! I'm hardly an unreasonable right wing gun loving Christian, or whatever caricature of "the other" is in their heads. Yet I don't feel welcome here.

Yeah, go ahead and downvote because I have different politics to you, even though I was just answering the question (at least I interpreted it as a question asking me to elaborate).

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#187

Post by mcguire »

xirbeosbwo1234 wrote: post #153
systemvoltage wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People of San Francisco passed a law t̶o̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶r̶o̶b̶b̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶$̶1̶0̶0̶0̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶f̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶c̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶p̶s̶.̶ They also expect safe neighborhoods. You can't have both. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26040812 Liberal policies such as this does not solve the actual problem. Instead of providing food and shelter to the poor, perhaps st…

The misinformation about Prop. 47 is stunning to me. It did not change anything relating to violent crime, nor did it make petty theft legal. Petty theft is still punishable by jail time. Robbery is still a felony. What it actually did is raise the line between misdemeanor and felony theft from $450 to $950.

As chomp pointed out, the limit for felony theft in Texas is $2500.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#188

Post by quag »

rayiner wrote: post #171

I’ve thought about this quite carefully, and I’m convinced we need to kick California out of the union. There is too big of an impedance mismatch with the rest of the country, and it creates and exports too much economic inequality. The usual retort to this is “what will you do without California’s economic engine?” And that’s a fair point—America without California will be less wealthy. But that will be fine; and in…

As Portland is in Oregon, and Jeff Bezos is in Washington, could the proposal be to have CA, OR, and WA become their own country?

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#189

Post by azinman2 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #13
Moodles wrote: post #6

I'm leaving San Francisco next month also. I just see no reason to continue living here. The weather is nice in California, but the city is so mismanaged it's a joke. The homelessness has been an issue for decades now and local politicians always talk about it, but what do they actually do to help? I genuinely have no clue where the high taxes go. I just find it so ironic that San Francisco is a bastion of liberalism…

People of San Francisco passed a law t̶o̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶r̶o̶b̶b̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶$̶1̶0̶0̶0̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶f̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶c̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶p̶s̶.̶ They also expect safe neighborhoods. You can't have both. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26040812 Liberal policies such as this does not solve the actual problem. Instead of providing food and shelter to the poor, perhaps st…

> Instead of providing food and shelter to the poor, perhaps starting an infrastructure program to employ these people and fix the damn roads, they empower the poor to go rampage stores to survive.

We spend over a billion a year on the homeless. It’s an intractable problem, and the weather, social services, and accepting (of panhandling) population drives demand to locate here.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#190

Post by [deleted] »

judge2020 wrote: post #181
s5300 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...This actually happens in the downtown of literally every major metro in the US because the US is terrible at dealing with the underlying issues that lead to this sort of thing as a whole. Just because you haven't exposed yourself to it nor seen about it in disgusting sensationalist shitshow that is media in the US doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Is there some CDC or HHS data on public defecation? e: remove false info

[deleted]
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