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Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

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Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#321

Post by headmelted »

TylerE wrote: post #305
headmelted wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is most certainly a lot baked into the language-specific editors that isn’t in IDEA proper. That said, the fact that they all share IDEA’s gubbins makes it massively easier to jump between languages and frameworks for small jobs than I ever thought would be possible. Having a set of tailored environments that also share keybindings and most common features makes for a fantastic (and really under-appreciated) va…

That is incorrect. It is the same code running underneath. There are differences in default config, and sometimes the independent versions have a faster release tempo, but it's the same language code.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't believe this is correct.

The IDE shell is the same, but in (for example) Rider there are features that are in Rider but not in IDEA.

Likewise RubyMine. I suspect WebStorm and PhpStorm, too.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#322

Post by markus_zhang »

IDEs like IDEA and Visual Studio give me perfect tool for a perfect learning experience: As a hobbyist I'm extremely picky about what I want to learn. For exmaple, when I'm learning C++ and game programming, I'm not interested at all at the inner workings of Git or Makefile or whatever that is not relevant at the moment.

I need something that I can sit down, install some libraries on, config a bit within, and then it works to some extent that I can start coding and with one click it can compile and run. I also need intellisense out of box for a better coding experience. Debugging experience should also be pleasant without installing anything. Of course it's a bonus point if there is a plugin system and I can potentially write my own.

I tried Vim and realized that:

- It will take many months to reach the same comfort of an IDE out of box. - I'm reaching 40 and don't have many months to live, so wasting any for anything not in my target list should be a sin. - I probably won't code professionally for my life so it's OK not to learn a lot of things (e.g. I only Git with myself) - If somehow coding becomes my profession I should be able to use the same IDE for work as well. - My coding skill is too low to make any advertised productivity increase of the Vim/Emacs people looks insignificant comparing to the time I nheed to debug some trivial errors.

Thus I dropped any learning towards Vim/Emacs/VSCode. However if I want to pick up one of them it's going to be Emacs because I really like its note taking facilities.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#323

Post by KptMarchewa »

neonological wrote: post #288
azeirah wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it feels like it comes from a different development philosophy. Vscode is a "text editor" or a "code editor". Usually this means that it's fairly lightweight, supports every language under the sun, is highly configurable and extensible, but doesn't have a lot of very in-depth features, and also partially relies on third-party extensions for deeper functionality. Jetbrains on the other hand works on IDEs built…

Intellij allows you to install pretty much most of the features from all the other jetbrains IDEs as plugins. Additionally most of their IDE's have the ability to code in several other languages seperate from the core experience. Almost all of their IDE's can for example integrate with the javascript ecosystem. I think you're making a mistake here. Essentially behind the scenes there's one jetbrains IDE. This IDE is…

Not to their other ides, just for Intellij.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#324

Post by mr_tristan »

tomlu wrote: post #253
mr_tristan wrote: post #202

People act as if the language server protocol has no equivalent in JetBrains ecosystem. There are, things like MPS: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/mps/mps-user-s-guide.html , or the platform: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/docs/intellij/intellij-platfor... This whole argument that VS code takes over seems to be assuming the Language Server Protocol and Electron is a vastly superior ecosystem. I haven't seen any eviden…

The language server protocol is diametrically opposite to the way that IntelliJ works. For each language, IntelliJ builds its own internal representation (PSI) of the source code. There are a lot of language specific things, but there are also a lot of commonalities between languages. I have no idea how you would morph (say) IntelliJ's Java support to use a LSP without basically throwing everything away and starting…

I'm not really arguing that the JetBrains ecosystem is equivalent, or necessarily better, than the LSP approach. It's just that this article seemed to base the existence of the LSP as some evidence that JetBrains' approaches with MPS, etc, are "corporate enterprise bloatware", which will be displaced by VS Code.

I just haven't any evidence that the LSP is creating a disruption, which is what the article is asserting.

Right now, it seems like you still have Microsoft as the main driver of the VS Code ecosystem with a few other contributors, and JetBrains really drives a lot of its ecosystem, with a few contributors. Not really seeing much of a difference, and, it doesn't seem like the products or business of JetBrains is significantly challenged by VS Code.

I mean, I haven't heard anything like Google deciding that VS Code will replace Android Studio, right? If the LSP was a true disruptor, I'd think that after a few years, that would be true. I'm sure eventually there will be more and better support for Android development in VS Code, but that probably won't displace Android Studio much.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#325

Post by khaledh »

sedatk wrote: post #312
khaledh wrote: post #95

I've been programming with various IDEs and text editors for over 30 years. In my formative programming years (1990s) I relied heavily on Borland and Microsoft IDEs. In the 2000s it was a combination of Visual Studio (C/C++/C#) and various editors (PHP, HTML/CSS/JS). In the 2010s I started working across multiple languages: C#, Java, Python, Ruby, Elixir, Scala, JavaScript (also dabbled with Lisp, Go, and Rust); usin…

> (Visual Studio -- not Code -- comes close). What do you think Visual Studio is lacking the most compared to JetBrains?

Don't get me wrong, I still consider VS to be an extremely powerful IDE. I think it's the best IDE for .NET development, and maybe C++. It also has the best debugger, period. But when it comes to supporting multiple languages, it lacks the consistency, extensions, and integration that JetBrains IDEs enjoy. Admittedly, I haven't used it professionally in about 5 years, so many things may have changed.

There's also something I can't express about productivity when I'm using a JetBrains IDE. I remember over a decade ago when I added ReSharper as a plugin to VS and all of a sudden I felt the IDE come to life, with a level of assists I haven't seen in VS proper. Of course VS has caught up now, but ReSharper was way ahead of it in those days.

It's also clear that MS is focusing their efforts with VS on cloud integration (VS Online, Azure, etc), rather than sweating the little details that make you even more productive day-to-day. That's probably why they let VS Code eat the bottom of the market, knowing that MS shops will still pay for MSDN subscriptions.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#326

Post by stitched2gethr »

iends wrote: post #298

I mostly write JavaScript/TypeScript (with a little Go in my freetime) and I switched from Webstorm to VSCode in December. Things I miss from Webstorm/Intellij: - Test runner - visual diff tool (gitlens isn't quite good enough) I've been thinking about what I'd miss from VSCode if I switched back and I cant' really come up with anything other than I really love https://shadesofpurple.pro/ . So why did I switch? Basic…

Well it is free. It's also open source for those of us that believe that's important in its own right.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#327

Post by monsieurbanana »

matsemann wrote: post #79
monsieurbanana wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of this post is just speculation like "I seriously doubt it will work well in an average cafe though" Meh. I don't think that's his main point. The two advantages of vscode he points out are: - browsers, and by extension Electron, are the best funded cross-platform GUI - vscode offloads language support to compilers (or other third-party tools) via LSP (Language Server Protocol) Electron apps are... slow craps…

Why is it an advantage being Electron? If anything, IDEA is also cross-platform. As for speed, VSC is faster as a text editor, but not that much faster for IDE stuff if you try to use it as that. Even slower some times, maybe LSP incurs some overhead IntelliJ don't have to do. While I get the point of LSP, as I wrote in another comment an IDE is much more than understanding the AST of the language and providing autoc…

Usage is important, has all editors live and die by their community. Intellij is less dependant on them, as they develop their most important features themselves, but third-party plug-ins are still mandatory nowadays.

That's my take, anyways. I'm biased as I personally wouldn't use Intellij if not for the community that made Emacs mode plugins for it. I also tend to costumize more than your average programmer.

But tooling becomes broader and more complex year after year (too complex, maybe), so I don't see in the futur any company being self sustained on that front.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#328

Post by jolux »

headmelted wrote: post #321
TylerE wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is incorrect. It is the same code running underneath. There are differences in default config, and sometimes the independent versions have a faster release tempo, but it's the same language code.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't believe this is correct. The IDE shell is the same, but in (for example) Rider there are features that are in Rider but not in IDEA. Likewise RubyMine. I suspect WebStorm and PhpStorm, too.

There just isn’t a C#/.NET plugin for IDEA that replicates the Rider functionality, though. Same with CLion and AppCode. They do ship Ruby and Python and PHP plugins. The JavaScript/web dev stuff is baked into all of their IDEs.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#329

Post by [deleted] »

stitched2gethr wrote: post #326
iends wrote: post #298

I mostly write JavaScript/TypeScript (with a little Go in my freetime) and I switched from Webstorm to VSCode in December. Things I miss from Webstorm/Intellij: - Test runner - visual diff tool (gitlens isn't quite good enough) I've been thinking about what I'd miss from VSCode if I switched back and I cant' really come up with anything other than I really love https://shadesofpurple.pro/ . So why did I switch? Basic…

Well it is free. It's also open source for those of us that believe that's important in its own right.

[deleted]

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#330

Post by firephreek »

africanboy wrote: post #106
mythz wrote: post #30

I used to think VS Code was going to be a threat to JetBrains IDEs considering how fast its iterative development was (thanks in large part to the productivity of JS + Web renderer) but its never seems to quite be able to reach the feature-set, polish & intelligence of JetBrains IDEs. Every IDE function appears to be better implemented in JetBrains, whether it's Code Analysis, Refactoring, Navigation, Running/Debuggi…

in my experience Intellij looks better if you have coded in Inttellij first (especially Java) and then moved to othet tools. Intellij offers a lot of custom behaviours that IMO programmers start coding the "Intellij way" (let's call it Intellij muscle memory for lack of a better definition) on the other hand going from vi to Emacs to Sublime to VSCode is less of a problem and people tend to honestly judge strength an…

> Intellij git integration in comparison, in my opinion, it's barely usable and generally counter intuitive.

You're going to have to explain that one to me. I don't know what part of `ctrl+k`, comment, `ctrl+enter` to commit is difficult. Keeps my hands on the keyboard and head in the code. Time to push? `ctrl+shift+k`. Update? `ctrl+t`.

I have yet to find any IDE that performs as well as IntelliJ et al.

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