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Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

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Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#41

Post by cyberpunk »

refenestrator wrote: post #10
bushbaba wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The us let’s Chinese firms generally speaking full access to the us market. The CCP doesn’t allow the us companies the same. Why our government let that happen. Letting so much business leave to the CCP will be one of the greatest failings of the us government.

Because we're arrogant. We thought that if we go down the road we went down, they'd naturally settle into their proper place as manufactory for the West without wanting a seat at the table. Now they're a global power and, gasp, they act like one. Nobody could have seen this coming.

I’d recommend reading the 100 year marathon and watching the latest Curtis if you’re curious to learn more on that. :)

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#42

Post by Rebelgecko »

ahelwer wrote: post #36
Rebelgecko wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The status quo also leads to suffering and death in the civilian population and it's hard to predict which future would be worse

Actually it's quite easy to predict! We can simply look at the track record of Western intervention since WW2, see that it comes down so squarely on the side of "please USA just leave the world alone, my god" that it achieves the platonic definition of a square, then call it a day.

Why exclude WW2?

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#43

Post by hntrader »

ahelwer wrote: post #32
hntrader wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What alternatives do you propose, and do you have the same view about the recent sanctions on the Saudis?

Why must there be alternatives? Why do anything at all? This bias toward a manufactured vague "do something!!!" feeling has just led to the deaths of countless civilians around the world.

Do you think not interfering in the Rwandan genocide was the best move?

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#44

Post by ahelwer »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #42
ahelwer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it's quite easy to predict! We can simply look at the track record of Western intervention since WW2, see that it comes down so squarely on the side of "please USA just leave the world alone, my god" that it achieves the platonic definition of a square, then call it a day.

Why exclude WW2?

I'm assuming you're saying this because you want to compare China to Nazi Germany, which is strange when the USSR is a much more apt comparison that existed in the postwar period.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#45

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

wayneftw wrote: post #17
bushbaba wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The us let’s Chinese firms generally speaking full access to the us market. The CCP doesn’t allow the us companies the same. Why our government let that happen. Letting so much business leave to the CCP will be one of the greatest failings of the us government.

Because the people who own and control everything would rather build up a government like the CCP so they can better control the "useless eaters" (as Henry Kissinger put it). "Made in China" is exactly the type of curse that the global elite like to put on people. It's plain as day what's coming next and yet, everybody has just accepted it since the 70s. China will be the world superpower to replace the US and appare…

China acts in China's interests. They as an institution are acting no different than they have throughout the dozens of empires before it. It's basically Ming 2.0.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#46

Post by adolph »

cameronh90 wrote: post #15
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China is a hostile nation I really have no idea where this narrative comes from. Chinese government is evil, hostile, and cruel even to (some of) their own citizens. However, China as a nation are people - just like you and me. Why should we treat them as "hostile"? It makes no sense at all. This kind of crooked reasoning and blurred thinking is one of the main causes of all wars in the history of mankind.

Is anyone really of the view that most Chinese are evil? I don't think that's what calling them a hostile nation is meant to mean. The problem is that the Chinese government, who ARE hostile, take advantage of the fact that we treat most Chinese as non-hostile. Nobody knows how many Chinese students and workers in the West are essentially spies for the Chinese government, but we do know it is enough to be worried abo…

Maybe the word evil should be thought of as “characterized by a value system of sufficient difference as to be in conflict with our own, either mutually or asymmetrically.”

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#47

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

yumraj wrote: post #24
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China is a hostile nation I really have no idea where this narrative comes from. Chinese government is evil, hostile, and cruel even to (some of) their own citizens. However, China as a nation are people - just like you and me. Why should we treat them as "hostile"? It makes no sense at all. This kind of crooked reasoning and blurred thinking is one of the main causes of all wars in the history of mankind.

By that logic at WW II, Germany was also a nation of German people, so am assuming per the above definition Germany was not a hostile nation? A nation is generally its government, CCP in the example of China and yes it is hostile against every non-China nation. Chinese are people just like every other people.

> A nation is generally its government

This is exactly the argument I object to. As per definition, "A nation is a community of people formed on the basis of a common language, territory, history, ethnicity, or a common culture." Keeping this distinction (between the government and the citizens) is crucial because the discourse influences actions.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#49

Post by baybal2 »

mc32 wrote: post #3

Somewhat recently a head of Microsoft was asked about forgoing access to the Chinese market if it meant protecting American interests in the face of new threats. He unequivocally said, yes. He was willing to forgo their market. I'm not sure Apple and others who either sell product there or have large manufacturing there are as willing to forgo the 'promise market', but it looks more and more we will have to. More or…

> We'll see how Biden handles this. I'm sure it's a tough call.

I don't see how he can. I don't see how the next 2-3 US administrations can.

If the current level of China's "scare power" is enough to paralyze the US, you will have less, and less options on the table with each year as you go.

Time works against the US, and the West at large.

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