It's not my intention to make this political, but it's odd to me that the current administration sanctioned the Saudis over the murder of a journalist, but has little more than stern words towards China over the Uyghur situation and cyber espionage. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll eventually do something.
There are no sanctions on Saudi Arabia, only on some minor officials.
I'm aware of that, but shouldn't we expect something either on par with that or something that goes even further than that when it comes to China?
Sanctions lead to widespread suffering & even death among the civilian population. Why do you want the Chinese people to suffer or die? Sanctions are scarcely less psychotic than bombing a school or hospital. The violence is just hidden in life expectancy reduction & many other metrics instead of "N civilians' bodies ripped apart by bombs". Oh, and targeted sanctions - aren't. Entities will view any sanctions as a le…
What alternatives do you propose, and do you have the same view about the recent sanctions on the Saudis?
Why must there be alternatives? Why do anything at all? This bias toward a manufactured vague "do something!!!" feeling has just led to the deaths of countless civilians around the world.
The us let’s Chinese firms generally speaking full access to the us market. The CCP doesn’t allow the us companies the same. Why our government let that happen. Letting so much business leave to the CCP will be one of the greatest failings of the us government.
The US has a significantly larger consumer market. A lot of people would complain if they were unable to import cheap goods from China.
Yeah but it means they don’t get paid as much either as there is no wage pressure at the bottom.
You can’t have $5 T-shirts and also a $15 minimum wage.
We need two things, I don’t think either will happen: 1) sanctions against China 2) a Greater Firewall outside China, right on all fiber cables, blocking/filtering all traffic from China. China is a hostile nation and we need to treat it as such.
Sanctions lead to widespread suffering & even death among the civilian population. Why do you want the Chinese people to suffer or die? Sanctions are scarcely less psychotic than bombing a school or hospital. The violence is just hidden in life expectancy reduction & many other metrics instead of "N civilians' bodies ripped apart by bombs". Oh, and targeted sanctions - aren't. Entities will view any sanctions as a le…
The status quo also leads to suffering and death in the civilian population and it's hard to predict which future would be worse
Somewhat recently a head of Microsoft was asked about forgoing access to the Chinese market if it meant protecting American interests in the face of new threats. He unequivocally said, yes. He was willing to forgo their market. I'm not sure Apple and others who either sell product there or have large manufacturing there are as willing to forgo the 'promise market', but it looks more and more we will have to. More or…
Talk is cheap. Has MS pulled out of China like Google did in 2009 before they backtracked?
Sanctions lead to widespread suffering & even death among the civilian population. Why do you want the Chinese people to suffer or die? Sanctions are scarcely less psychotic than bombing a school or hospital. The violence is just hidden in life expectancy reduction & many other metrics instead of "N civilians' bodies ripped apart by bombs". Oh, and targeted sanctions - aren't. Entities will view any sanctions as a le…
The status quo also leads to suffering and death in the civilian population and it's hard to predict which future would be worse
Actually it's quite easy to predict! We can simply look at the track record of Western intervention since WW2, see that it comes down so squarely on the side of "please USA just leave the world alone, my god" that it achieves the platonic definition of a square, then call it a day.
The us let’s Chinese firms generally speaking full access to the us market. The CCP doesn’t allow the us companies the same. Why our government let that happen. Letting so much business leave to the CCP will be one of the greatest failings of the us government.
Because we're arrogant. We thought that if we go down the road we went down, they'd naturally settle into their proper place as manufactory for the West without wanting a seat at the table. Now they're a global power and, gasp, they act like one. Nobody could have seen this coming.
I don’t think anyone was thinking it through at all. We just needed cheap goods to placate our population and they needed the jobs to placate theirs.
> He unequivocally said, yes. He was willing to forgo their market. US is a corporate republic. The republic that founders dreamed of has waned and frailed from generations of corporate sellout political, legal, media, and business conglomerate establishments. Shareholders will come first and will continue to do so. With 33 trillion dollars debt there is not really any other option left now other than to continue to…
> He won't. He is just the face of the same old thinking that brought us here. Just like all of his predecessors in last 40 years. And it's a good thing. Only Trump was bold enough to entertain the idea of a commercial war with China. I live in the US, but I don't want that. I want peace and freedom. China and the US are natural allies given the complementarity of the industries. Let's make peace not war.
All the lives lost across the world to COVID and the economic impact of the previous year has demonstrated that "make peace" with CCP is not a good idea. I am, by no means, advocating war. But the rest of the world has to take measures to ensure bidirectional access to information. Here's what I am advocating: If a country wants free flow of goods, people, and money, there has to be free flow of information too. If it means curbing economic activities in hostile governments, while the decision must not be taken lightly, it needs to be taken sometimes.
Somewhat recently a head of Microsoft was asked about forgoing access to the Chinese market if it meant protecting American interests in the face of new threats. He unequivocally said, yes. He was willing to forgo their market. I'm not sure Apple and others who either sell product there or have large manufacturing there are as willing to forgo the 'promise market', but it looks more and more we will have to. More or…
Microsoft is a crucial pillar in the US's political and industrial espionage, they won't let that happen. It wouldn't protect the US from threats, it would protect China.
Somewhat recently a head of Microsoft was asked about forgoing access to the Chinese market if it meant protecting American interests in the face of new threats. He unequivocally said, yes. He was willing to forgo their market. I'm not sure Apple and others who either sell product there or have large manufacturing there are as willing to forgo the 'promise market', but it looks more and more we will have to. More or…
The us let’s Chinese firms generally speaking full access to the us market. The CCP doesn’t allow the us companies the same. Why our government let that happen. Letting so much business leave to the CCP will be one of the greatest failings of the us government.
A few speculative ideas/thoughts:
- The US needs access to China's goods to be viable. For half a century US companies improved their efficiency/competitiveness by moving their process to China. They now have too many dependencies in the form of Chinese manufacturing and development capabilities and do not have the skills/knowledge/talents/infrastructure in the US. Because of this China can dictate their rules with zero pressure (though India and other countries will surely be a difficult competition at some point, or maybe already are).
- China owns more than 1 trillion of US debt. In the past the country bought a massive amount of US debt to inflate USD vs RMB and boost their own economy. Currently China has no reasons to sell their reserve as that would impact their economy negatively. If the US blocks them they may start massively selling US debt, which would impact USD and the US economy.