Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code • Hacker News Board

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#191

Post by dagmx » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

jayjader wrote: post #85

azeirah wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it feels like it comes from a different development philosophy. Vscode is a "text editor" or a "code editor". Usually this means that it's fairly lightweight, supports every language under the sun, is highly configurable and extensible, but doesn't have a lot of very in-depth features, and also partially relies on third-party extensions for deeper functionality. Jetbrains on the other hand works on IDEs built…

I wonder if you have had the chance to use a Jetbrains IDE with a professional license. Doing so gives you access to more or less the content of all the other "flavors" as plugins (it's basically all IntelliJ underneath). For example, I've been using PyCharm for both our python backend _and_ our React + Typescript frontend, all in the same project window, with the same features regarding syntax, linting, refactoring,…

It really depends on the language and IDE.

For example I used to just own Idea Ultimate and use the language plugins, but the workflows were always inferior to using the dedicated IDE for that language.

So I now have the full JetBrains suite and use a mix of Rider, CLion, PyCharm Pro, AppCode etc...

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#192

Post by matsemann » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

africanboy wrote: post #106

mythz wrote: post #30

I used to think VS Code was going to be a threat to JetBrains IDEs considering how fast its iterative development was (thanks in large part to the productivity of JS + Web renderer) but its never seems to quite be able to reach the feature-set, polish & intelligence of JetBrains IDEs. Every IDE function appears to be better implemented in JetBrains, whether it's Code Analysis, Refactoring, Navigation, Running/Debuggi…

in my experience Intellij looks better if you have coded in Inttellij first (especially Java) and then moved to othet tools. Intellij offers a lot of custom behaviours that IMO programmers start coding the "Intellij way" (let's call it Intellij muscle memory for lack of a better definition) on the other hand going from vi to Emacs to Sublime to VSCode is less of a problem and people tend to honestly judge strength an…

> Intellij git integration in comparison, in my opinion, it's barely usable and generally counter intuitive.

Disagree. I use it all the time. It's sooo nice to have the different changelists. Easy to make changes that I don't want to accidentally commit by putting them on a different changelist (like pointing to a different database). And it can be split even in the same file, much more easily to commit parts like this than using git -p.

> BTW the java plugin bundle for VSCode replicates 95% of the features of Intellij,

If you only look at the textual java code, perhaps. But it lacks the awareness of the rest of the java ecosystem that Intellij provides.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#193

Post by dagmx » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #177

amitport wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well just note that this doesn't work with all combination of languages. Try installing CLion on webstorm for example.

IntelliJ ultimate is the main IDE. Everything else is a version of IntelliJ that has been configured for a specific language. IntelliJ should, theoretically, be able to behave like any of the sub-IDEs, but the reverse is not true.

Theoretically yes. In practice no. Each IDE has workflows and features tuned to their respective domain.

They're not just simple configuration changes from each other

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#194

Post by matsemann » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #185

africanboy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in my experience Intellij looks better if you have coded in Inttellij first (especially Java) and then moved to othet tools. Intellij offers a lot of custom behaviours that IMO programmers start coding the "Intellij way" (let's call it Intellij muscle memory for lack of a better definition) on the other hand going from vi to Emacs to Sublime to VSCode is less of a problem and people tend to honestly judge strength an…

Something Java accidentally did was be impossible to code without an IDE, in part because of its type system. People wrote really good IDEs for it, aided by the type system. At some point, they realized they could use what they learned and adapt the IDE to other languages.

At least most of our java program is written by us. Compared to visual studio (not vs code) where a wizard will generate thousands of lines of config no one dares to touch again or know how to modify.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#195

Post by meddlepal » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

mwint wrote: post #21

voidfunc wrote: post #3

I don’t really see IntelliJ and VSCode as competitors. VSCode competes with atom and other full-featured text editors (vim, emacs) ... its got great adoption amongst the newer generation of programmers that think those editors are old school and user hostile. VSCodes Java, Python, and Golang support is miles behind IntelliJ. FWIW, on my team at Microsoft where we write a lot of Go, theres a 50/50 split between Intell…

I'm a current MS intern, curious what work ya'll are doing in Go. Would you be up for a call sometime?

Email me your MS alias and I'll reach out over Teams on Monday. Email is my profile.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#196

Post by speedgoose » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

jjjeii3 wrote: post #161

Why are desktop Java apps are always so slow? Applications written in other languages (C#, C++, etc.) are much much faster. Even VS Code, written in JavaScript is faster... I tried hundreds of applications and this was always the case and not just with certain applications.

It's not really Java as a programming langage, you can have light and fast Java code, nor the JVM, it's a pretty fast virtual machine that is just very memory hungry by default. In my opinion it's the community and the philosophy around Java. It's usually a bit over engineered and performances are not taken into account very often. Take eclipse as an example, from a software design point of view it's great and a very advanced. You can for example play with the eclipse modeling framework and it's in another league compared to VS code plug-ins.

However the end user doesn't really care about the beauty of the Eclipse meta meta model and think more about why it takes so long to start or why it uses to much memory compared to notepad++.

Also while Vscode is written in typescript/javascript, it uses V8 for the javascript VM which is very fast.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#197

Post by polyterative » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

For my everyday use the little features, customizzation and shortcut integration make jetbrains the winner

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#198

Post by AlphaSite » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

blowski wrote: post #150

azeirah wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have. IntelliJ ultimate edition still has fewer features for PHP specifically than Phpstorm. Presumably not because it actually has fewer features, but because "the debugger" now has 150 options instead of like 5. Also, these super-featured IDEs still won't support languages that Jetbrains doesn't have a specific IDE for. For instance, Delphi. Sure they'll support syntax highlighting somehow, and there might be one…

It also kills performance when you have so many languages configured.

Just 5row money at the problem and configure your machine with more memory. Docker for Mac already eats a ton so I’m not sure there aren’t other good reasons to do so.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#199

Post by microtonal » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

sammorrowdrums wrote: post #157

Longhanks wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not for C/C++, you need CLion for that.

And Rust, as the debugger only works for Rust in CLion. I use PyCharm and WebStorm daily, and CLion for Rust projects at the moment.

Debugging is also available in PyCharm starting with the 2021.1 EAPs:

https://intellij-rust.github.io/2021/03/01/changelog-142.htm...

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#200

Post by dagmx » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

charrondev wrote: post #9

matsemann wrote: post #2

Most of this post is just speculation like " I seriously doubt it will work well in an average cafe though " without much substance. Either test it or report on it, or at least discuss its shortcomings based on some technical merits. And frankly I don't care how well it works on "spotty café wifi". If the wifi sucks I wouldn't sit there and work anyway. As for the language server protocol, nothing stops IDEA from doi…

One of the things that baffles me is the rust-Lang support. Rust-lang has an official dual-licensed MIT/Apache language server protocol implementation (RLS) under active development. In my view it’s currently a better experience than the custom IntelliJ one. Instead of collaborating though I see IntelliJ continuing on the path of their custom implementation. Every week RLS gives an update on their progress and so doe…

I use both VSC and CLion, and CLion is a much better experience for Rust IMHO. I know the IntrlliJ only plugin is kind of lacking versus the CLion feature with regards to debugging, but overall I find CLions support to be miles ahead of rust analyzer for stability, speed and ease of use.