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Ask HN: Is abuse from supervisors as common in industry as in academia?

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Re: Ask HN: Is abuse from supervisors as common in industry as in academia?

#111

Having been in both academia (albeit only for a Master's, so Ph.D. treatment I saw only from third-person perspective) and industry, the main difference is what happens when you do land in a bad situation (i.e. with a bad supervisor). If you are in industry with a job skill for which there is demand, if you have a bad supervisor you just start shopping for a new job. So, regardless of whether or not the % of bad supe…

Age might be a red herring. A bigger issue is that you can’t leave with a fraction of a PhD: 5/6ths of a PhD is effectively the same as nothing (or maybe a master’s degree). It doesn’t “vest” until your defense. Sometimes one can change groups, but that is often politically and financially tricky.

Yeah you could hardly have devised a better system for disempowering a researcher's assistants.

Re: Ask HN: Is abuse from supervisors as common in industry as in academia?

#112
Ironically, while colleges often promote themselves as institutions of 'higher education' ... IME the fraction of professors who saw themselves as educators was ... markedly less than half.

In my major's department of perhaps 30, there were at best 5 who were willing and enthusiastic teachers. The rest (it was evident) saw their teaching duties as an unfair chore heaped upon their higher aspirations. (Their scorn for the actual educators was palpable.) Besides the chosen few, the best teachers - as always and everywhere I suspect - were my fellow students.

Whatever colleges are, or ever were (the 'Halls of Ivy' were but a dream), they are composed of the same sorts of human beings that are found everywhere in life. Try not to become like the man behind the curtain.

Re: Ask HN: Is abuse from supervisors as common in industry as in academia?

#113
post #55
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In industry it’s much easier to leave tyrant bosses. … and when that’s less true, you see the same dynamic. Most of the bad stories I’ve heard involve H1-B holders who couldn’t leave, locations where there wasn’t much other tech employment, or specialized skills which were only in demand by a handful of local employers (e.g. being a veteran COBOL employer in SV will not give you an edge for most of the open jobs).…

Oh not to worry, academia innovated on this concept too and for non-US citizens advisors can simultaneously hold both a students F-1 visa and their career future over them. Your points are valid though. > science would be healthier for having more staff scientist positions in larger groups I think this is a good idea but not for these reasons. Big labs frequently do have research scientist type roles but those roles…

Acronym expansion: TT is “tenure track” (I had to google it)

Re: Ask HN: Is abuse from supervisors as common in industry as in academia?

#115
In academia, your thesis advisor has an organizational obligation to training you as a researcher. The advisor's actual obligation is of course to their own career. In industry, your manager doesn't even have an organizational obligation on your behalf. They're working on behalf of the company. In other words, what you saw in academia is a great preparation for things to come.

Re: Ask HN: Is abuse from supervisors as common in industry as in academia?

#116
Based on my experience in grad school, working in industry alongside people that have been through various PhD programs, and working in different domains, I think there are a number of factors at play.

1. Breadth of work experience. People that have worked different jobs in different industries have more perspective and are less likely to be assholes. A career in academia tends to discourage breadth of work experience. The counterpoint are people that have transferred into academia from industry and these people tend to be wonderful to work with.

2. People that are leading research programs are focused on impressing people outside the department in order to acquire research funding and improve their group or school's reputation. They care much less (if at all) about what anyone internal to the department thinks unless that person is above them or critical to their success. This applies to academic programs as well as programs in industry (see point 3).

3. Research programs in industry tend to be shorter-lived than programs in academia, hence people working in industry need to be more flexible and have a broader network of goodwill than academics. Research is not a zero-sum game and if you can help someone with minimal effort that may result in unforeseen rewards many years later.

Almost all of the people I have worked with in both academia and industry I would work with again. I don't think there is a difference in ratio of assholes to non-assholes across academics and industry. The main difference seems to be that people working in academia seem to feel trapped, which certainly intensifies the experience unfortunately.

Re: Ask HN: Is abuse from supervisors as common in industry as in academia?

#117
post #88

I think there’s a default assumption in academia that students bring the motivation and perspiration to their work. The advisor doesn’t pull them through the program; the student pushes and the advisor guides. My spouse and several friends have PhDs and I do not, so my exposure is secondhand, but when I hear that circle of friends/friends-of-friends complaining about poor advisors, I often hear details about the grad…

>The advisor doesn’t pull them through the program; the student pushes and the advisor guides. I've got a PhD, as does my spouse. I think this gives too much credit to the advisors. Some of them make you push a lot harder than others. Some actively derail your life. Sometimes each person has a totally different experience with a advisor than others because the advisor treats people differently. When I was in grad sch…

Current PhD in cryptography here, and I’ve observed similar dynamics in my lab—some profs are entrepreneurial, some have a “system” for all their students to follow, and some are classic cloistered academic types interested only in their research.

I’m also at least 10 years older than any other student in the lab, and I can see how someone in their 20s who hasn’t had a lot of jobs/bosses might have certain expectations about an advisor and be highly disappointed or even feel wronged.

Re: Ask HN: Is abuse from supervisors as common in industry as in academia?

#119
Not that common, prevalence varies by industry - but most of the time you are reporting to a middle manager. Middle managers have the basic job of keeping their team happy and achieving some goals/quotas on a defined schedule. As long as you are contributing to the latter your supervisors job is to keep you happy.

Micro managers etc tend to get pushed out of tech jobs fast.

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