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Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

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Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#51

Post by skohan »

Dayshine wrote: post #40
skohan wrote: post #16

> The key technology here is probably the Language Server Protocol I've been working on an LSP implementation lately, and I have to say so far the reality falls short of the promise. I feel like what LSP should be is a clear, simple interface for implementing IDE-like features for any language, but my experience is that it is incredibly arcane and difficult to use. The main issue is the documentation. It has a high-l…

As someone who wrote an LSP implementing server 2 years ago (when the documentation was even less complete), I can't really relate to this. As far as I know, the LSP specification only accepts PRs once there is a reference implementation. So you can literally just run VS Code with verbose logging turned on for the reference language server and inspect the communications. I did my learning by literally following the V…

> As far as I know, the LSP specification only accepts PRs once there is a reference implementation. So you can literally just run VS Code with verbose logging turned on for the reference language server and inspect the communications.

“You have to run VSCode to reach a working understanding” seems like a pretty far cry from the stated goal of the project of decoupling the language features from the code editor to me

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#52

Post by nkozyra »

Nursie wrote: post #32
matwood wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I have used IntelliJ for Java for as long as I can remember and can't imagine using anything else. For JS and Go I use VSCode. I wonder if it's just what I started with and am used to. I've tried to use Intellij a couple of times for Go, but end up back on VSCode.

Goland is great if you have IntelliJ muscle memory, I haven't tried using IntelliJ directly for Go though, Imagine it's probably sub-optimal. You do have to pay for Goland also.

I would (and do) use goland directly, but i think intellij handles the basics. I only use intellij for rust, and it does well enough there as well

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#53

Post by arcturus17 »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #18
whynotminot wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So VSCode is very, very good for TypeScript. Hell, I'm pretty sure VSCode itself is written in TypeScript! But that does not carry over to all languages. When working on web apps with a Java backend, I still prefer Idea because it's better for Java and close enough for TypeScript so it comes out ahead over all.

> But that does not carry over to all languages. It does. All languages are basically the same. They parse to ASTs that you can manipulate programmatically. If those ASTs are strongly typed, you can safely perform refractors. What makes IntelliJ good is the base framework JetBrains uses, the same one they use in WebStorm, PyCharm, etc. VSCode is that same thing: an adaptable base and I’m sure making it on par for Jav…

Absolutely not, there are many, many language-specific things that an IDE does beyond code hints.

Microsoft doesn't seem to be investing that much, if anything, on languages other than JS/TS; it is delegating all on the OSS community through plugins. And while some of the plugins are really good, in my experience they don't even come close to the native capabilities of Jetbrains products.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#54

Post by st3fan »

meddlepal wrote: post #25
matwood wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I have used IntelliJ for Java for as long as I can remember and can't imagine using anything else. For JS and Go I use VSCode. I wonder if it's just what I started with and am used to. I've tried to use Intellij a couple of times for Go, but end up back on VSCode.

I dont know how you’re productive with VS Code and Go... I watch my coworkers live code with it sometimes and they are struggling. The lang server crashes constantly and stuff like autoimports or code complete barely works. I sometimes want to scream while watching them struggle.

The quality is really getting better but it is my experience that you still have to restart the language server (or the integration?) multiple times per hour on any non-trivial project. It is frustrating but it also becomes a habit to quickly reach out to that shortcut in case completion, formatting or intellisense randomly stops working.

It is hard to complain about free tools though. For a Free tool, VSCode, gopls and the Go extensions are great.

If you want more stability, polish and features, pay the $8/month for Goland?

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#55

Post by slifin »

charrondev wrote: post #12
melling wrote: post #4

I think JetBrains is much better than VScode for development. However, for me VScode is always open, and I frequently open files with VScode from the terminal code filename

I know you can do similarly with the IntelliJ apps. For me I can also do `pstorm filename` and open in PHPStorm. Of course for single one off files I prefer to open in sublime because of how much faster it is.

This is the same for me, Sublime 4 is faster and more polished than VSCode and Intellji is more feature packed

Personally I switch between Sublime Text 4 and Intellji depending on the task, VSCode in my opinion isn't outstanding in either performance, polish or features

Maybe Emac 28's speed increase will change the landscape a bit

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#56

Post by uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh »

jart wrote: post #22
The_rationalist wrote: post #5

HN deserve better content than this, while the topic is interesting there are too much errors, unadjusted logical quantifiers and omissions to make this biased writing worth a read.

It's also posted by some anonymous throwaway account that was registered on GitHub three days ago. JetBrains deserves more respect than this. They're not threatened. They're a rising star. They're making tons of money when the rest of the industry thought there wasn't any money to be had in tools anymore. I love them because speaking as a long time Emacs user, JetBrains makes the only IDEs I've seen that simulates Em…

This has me seeing maybe but probably not spending my gov-bux on webstorm

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#57

Post by The_rationalist »

maple3142 wrote: post #27

In my opinion, one killer feature of VSCode is the ability to connect to WSL, remote server and Docker container. As someone mainly developing on WSL2, I use this feature everyday. I only use Idea when I need to use Java or Kotlin, because its language support is really good.

Intellij 2021.1 has the feature called run targets, which enable to run your code on a docker environment or on a remote server. It also bring WSL support. https://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2021/03/intellij-idea-2021-1...

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#58

Post by finiteseries »

charrondev wrote: post #12
melling wrote: post #4

I think JetBrains is much better than VScode for development. However, for me VScode is always open, and I frequently open files with VScode from the terminal code filename

I know you can do similarly with the IntelliJ apps. For me I can also do `pstorm filename` and open in PHPStorm. Of course for single one off files I prefer to open in sublime because of how much faster it is.

I’ve actually happily reinstalled Sublime Text after almost a decade due to this.

VS code has been relegated to a text editor with my work changing from mostly JS to mostly C++, and `code X` or opening up a JSON file is just slow enough for a little internal groan to come out.

Certainly not XCode levels of groan, but slow enough to move me anyways.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#59

Post by sdfhbdf »

Different problems require different tool sets.

The debate seems similar to some language comparison like JavaScript vs Go. There is a place for each - IDE and a Code Editor, Interpreted and Compiled - and for every problem - big corporate project, small open source repo you should just use the appropriate tool.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#60

Post by parhamn »

I use IntelliJ daily. I think when LSP gets there VSCode can catch up and fill the IDE gap, but until then it doesn't come close to IntelliJ in terms of functionality (though sometimes the perf of IJ makes me want to switch but it has been feeling a lot better on the M1).

LSP needs to make 2 major improvements in order to to get wider adoption:

- Improve package/runtime support detection (Go modules, npm, virtualenvs, etc). IntelliJ shines here.

- Create one bundled cross-language LSP container or something that all the editors out there can use. Currently its a mess to configure and run all the language servers and what not. This leads to a broken half-assed end-user experience.

Once #2 happens, I think the whole editor ecosystem will feel a lot better for all the editors. Everyone is poorly reinventing the wheel right now.

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