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Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

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Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#141

Post by wtallis »

dragontamer wrote: post #135
Firehawke wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, he's been saying the sky was falling for some time, and it turns out he was pretty accurate in his statements on Intel's problems. This review makes it clear that unless Intel magically gets a process improvement they're entirely screwed. This is precisely the same kind of design issue that hit with the latter end of the P4 era, where thermal limitations were so severe that they were crippling the chips. I'd hav…

Are they really? AMD will make gains for sure at this rate, but TSMC can't serve the whole market. Intel owns fabs, and these rocket lake chips will sell to the mainstream just fine. I expect intel's fabs to be a big asset in these COVID times with sold out computers.

This chips really don't seem to be a good use of Intel's limited fab capacity. The CPU cores are substantially larger while offering basically no benefits other than AVX-512 support. It looks like Intel would have been better off pairing the upgraded IO and integrated graphics with their existing, smaller Skylake cores.

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#142

Post by encryptluks2 »

hnISmongoguy wrote: post #119
encryptluks2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price is the biggest factor. You can get 10 cores with Intel for cheaper than 8 with AMD, plus with Intel you get integrated graphics as well which is really important right now considering the GPU shortage. Also, Intel allows virtual GPUs for virtualization in QEMU which AMD won't do.

Oh wow, I didn't know HN still had knowledgeable commentators! (I thought it was a competition to say BLUE COMPANY BAD GREEN COMPANY GOOD in various ways). So OP assuming I still want to buy an AMD because of its ECC support, (and can get my hands on a GPU), can you point me somewhere so that I can read about the last point you made. (EDIT: haven't researched but https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-with-graphics…

If you had asked me about NVIDIA, since I run Wayland on Linux, I would have probably been much more biased.

Regarding the last point, you can learn more about it here:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Intel_GVT-g

Or, on their official GitHub Wiki:

https://github.com/intel/gvt-linux/wiki/GVTg_Setup_Guide

AMD's similar MxGPU is only available on Radeon Pro and their Workstation graphics:

https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/workstation-virtual-graphics

Regarding other factors to consider, I really don't have anything else. If ECC is important, then as you mentioned Intel doesn't offer ECC on these chipsets.

Additionally, AMD's advanced security features like memory guard is only available on the PRO processors, however there are versions of the 4650GE Pro and 4750GE Pro for a descent price point:

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/pro-security

More advanced capabilities like SEV are only supported by EPYC from what I can tell, which is what various cloud providers are now using for confidential computing:

https://www.amd.com/en/processors/amd-secure-encrypted-virtu...

Intel offers SGX on most of their consumer chips, but it has been plagued with issues and exploits in the past:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Guard_Extensions

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#143

Post by redisman »

oumua_don17 wrote: post #26
jpgvm wrote: post #9

RIP Intel... They need their new process node and whatever new architecture they have in the pipe to land -soon-. Looks like my 9900k might be the last Intel processor I buy for a long time unless things drastically change.

>> land soon Not soon but yesterday

The next big desktop release will be whatever comes with the new AM5 socket so they have some time to get their act together. I don’t have high hopes that they can actually compete and now Apple also leapfrogged them with non-desktop chips

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#144

Post by redisman »

moreira wrote: post #84
encryptluks2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price is the biggest factor. You can get 10 cores with Intel for cheaper than 8 with AMD, plus with Intel you get integrated graphics as well which is really important right now considering the GPU shortage. Also, Intel allows virtual GPUs for virtualization in QEMU which AMD won't do.

“Choose Intel because it’s cheaper than AMD” is one of those arguments that make you realise how quickly the world changes.

It does make sense though given that they’re still cashing in on their mature process when AMD is in the TSMC 7nm bidding war

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#145

Post by dragontamer »

wtallis wrote: post #141
dragontamer wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they really? AMD will make gains for sure at this rate, but TSMC can't serve the whole market. Intel owns fabs, and these rocket lake chips will sell to the mainstream just fine. I expect intel's fabs to be a big asset in these COVID times with sold out computers.

This chips really don't seem to be a good use of Intel's limited fab capacity. The CPU cores are substantially larger while offering basically no benefits other than AVX-512 support. It looks like Intel would have been better off pairing the upgraded IO and integrated graphics with their existing, smaller Skylake cores.

https://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph16535/111160.png

Pretty much every Rocket-lake score is faster than Skylake across the board.

I'd definitely buy a Rocket Lake over any old Skylake based off of these reviews. Rocket Lake seems a wee-bit inferior to Zen3, but AMD Zen3 is pretty much sold out, so if you need a computer, Intel is still there.

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#146

Post by esperent »

p1mrx wrote: post #95
pdog wrote: post #37

No ECC support means it's totally useless for workstation workloads.

With Ryzen, it's feasible to use ECC in a desktop/gaming PC too; you just need a motherboard that lists ECC support. I'm running DDR4-3200 CL22 ECC overclocked to 3666 CL16 on an ASRock board with a 5800X.

Is there any advantage to using ECC for a gaming or desktop PC?

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#147

Post by malikNF »

smt88 wrote: post #126
rubyist5eva wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just going to say, if you don't think this _isn't_ going to be massively abused - take a look at what the CCP, or any authoritarian regime does really, to silence dissent. Don't have a good enough social credit because you shared an opinion somebody doesn't like one too many times? Intel and Microsoft will just remotely brick all your devices. > Is there a privacy-respecting solution that you prefer? Yeah, it's c…

What if a journalist makes a video and wants everyone to know where it came from? If it's all opt-in (and otherwise anonymous), doesn't that solve the privacy issue? I'm definitely not advocating for the OP solution, which is why I asked if anyone knew of alternatives.

Wont just post it from an official social media account belonging to that journalist fix this issue ?

It starts off with opt in, then they do an update to now opt out, then then do an update to make it harder to opt-out and next thing we know this is something everyone has to live with.

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#148

Post by p1mrx »

loeg wrote: post #124
p1mrx wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Ryzen, it's feasible to use ECC in a desktop/gaming PC too; you just need a motherboard that lists ECC support. I'm running DDR4-3200 CL22 ECC overclocked to 3666 CL16 on an ASRock board with a 5800X.

Yeah, this is likely the implicit comparison GP was drawing. Which ASRock board did you go with?

B550M Steel Legend... I think it's the only AM4 microATX board with ECC, 2.5G Ethernet, and dual USB3 headers.

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#149

Post by p1mrx »

esperent wrote: post #146
p1mrx wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Ryzen, it's feasible to use ECC in a desktop/gaming PC too; you just need a motherboard that lists ECC support. I'm running DDR4-3200 CL22 ECC overclocked to 3666 CL16 on an ASRock board with a 5800X.

Is there any advantage to using ECC for a gaming or desktop PC?

Given the choice, why would anyone ever want RAM that can flip bits undetected? It's basically a design flaw.

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#150

Post by Kavenerinds »

AuthorizedCust wrote: post #108
notatoad wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just a guess, but if he went to the store looking for an LGA1200 socket motherboard, he wasn't planning on purchasing a new CPU as well

In his last paragraph, he said he bought a new processor. Or at least, he suggested a purchase by referring to its discount using present tense.

Assuming that you're thinking they'd be looking at a R5 3600 ($179.99). For gaming the 10400F ($109.99) is basically on par with the AMD. AMD is only worth it for productivity related task, and only then it's a ~15% performance hit.
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