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Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

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Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#111

Post by StillBored »

Sad, 10 years of nothing from intel but single digit uplifts and increasing power. I think apple sort of proves that there is plenty of single threaded perf uplift available with the right designs (aka one not designed for a server). Even AMD traditionally trailing is easily surpassing them now too, the AMD core that is easily matching or beating them isn't even close to the best desktop part they have (and rightfully so, a desktop with 8 cores... lets see phones with 8 cores have been a thing for how many years again?).

Couldn't happen to a nicer company, but for the health of the industry I hope they have something to keep up with the Arm hordes. What we need is a good decade of a 3+ way back and forth between an arm vendor or three and amd and intel to really push the industry again.

BTW: Just imagine what apple could do with a 300W power budget!

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#112

Post by userbinator »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #85
lucb1e wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why this is downvoted, the questions are constructive for the thread. To add a question: why is it bad if it's an optional component? Nobody's forcing you to disclose that you shot a certain picture, unless I'm misunderstanding the concept here.

The endgame is to be able to have your fingerprint in every device you own, and it is not going to be optional. So that no matter if you uploaded a photo from your phone, an ipad, your PC - they will know it was you. It's going to be embedded at every level of the stack, from a file - right down to the silicon (if Intel's involvement is any indication). They want to know every piece of content you create and distribu…

I can see in the future the prices for "pre-spyware" hardware going up, much like "pre-emissions" is a thing in the car enthusiast community and lately, interestingly enough, farmers (right to repair and all that). Computers are plenty fast already, without the bloat of "modern" software forcing you to upgrade... if we're going to go down that conspiracy rabbithole further, those hostile behaviours all align against the users.

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#113

Post by judge2020 »

StillBored wrote: post #111

Sad, 10 years of nothing from intel but single digit uplifts and increasing power. I think apple sort of proves that there is plenty of single threaded perf uplift available with the right designs (aka one not designed for a server). Even AMD traditionally trailing is easily surpassing them now too, the AMD core that is easily matching or beating them isn't even close to the best desktop part they have (and rightfull…

> BTW: Just imagine what apple could do with a 300W power budget!

We'll likely see by the end of 2022 (probably with less than 300w):

https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/7/22158264/apple-32-core-pr...

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#114

Post by userbinator »

coding123 wrote: post #73

I think at this point we're just waiting for Windows and Linux to be fully supported on the M1 or for ARM to come out with a system on a chip that's documented enough for Windows and Linux to make a port.

or for ARM to come out with a system on a chip that's documented enough for Windows and Linux to make a port

Linux (i.e. Android) already has been ported to countless ARM SoCs, the problem being that all of these SoCs are subtly different even if they're well-documented.

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#115

Post by StillBored »

jeffbee wrote: post #91
kllrnohj wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you wait for that when you can have a faster CPU in the form of the 5800X today? The M1 is a phenomenal laptop CPU, but it's still not faster than AMD's desktop offerings, either. At least not according to the specint results in the article.

The M1 is much faster on some single-threaded workloads than any other CPU. For example on browser benchmarks M1 is a whopping 60% faster than the 2nd place processor. Browser is an important workload for most people. If you want to run MS Windows then obviously I can't recommend it.

Yah, the M1 is a single threaded beast, but its too power constrained (and apparently not as efficient in a number of cases) to keep up with AMD's less power constrained laptop cores in throughput tests.

I think this could be a fine battle with a strong apple lead at least until amd releases a 5nm design, but i'm afraid that apple, will be apple and keep doing thin/light/constrained devices, with maybe a super expensive mac pro that can't be justified by anyone who doesn't burn cash in their grill.

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#116

Post by Firehawke »

dralley wrote: post #102
guardiangod wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rocket Lake was designed for 10nm, but Intel couldn't get 10nm to work, so they backport Rocket Lake to 14nm. https://semiaccurate.com/2020/10/29/intels-palpable-desperat... Just filter out Charlie Demerjian's grudge against Intel. Companies don’t backport because a core is designed for a process. It’s efficiency and architecture is based on the transistors that it will use from the design start, caches are sized bas…

Grudge or not, it's not like he's been wrong the last few years. Turns out all the negativity is well justified...

Yep, he's been saying the sky was falling for some time, and it turns out he was pretty accurate in his statements on Intel's problems.

This review makes it clear that unless Intel magically gets a process improvement they're entirely screwed.

This is precisely the same kind of design issue that hit with the latter end of the P4 era, where thermal limitations were so severe that they were crippling the chips. I'd have to do some digging, but I absolutely remember reading an interesting set of benchmarks that made it clear that you were 99% likely to thermally throttle those P4s even with proper thermal paste and an improved high-end heatsink/fan.

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#117

Post by nightski »

StillBored wrote: post #111

Sad, 10 years of nothing from intel but single digit uplifts and increasing power. I think apple sort of proves that there is plenty of single threaded perf uplift available with the right designs (aka one not designed for a server). Even AMD traditionally trailing is easily surpassing them now too, the AMD core that is easily matching or beating them isn't even close to the best desktop part they have (and rightfull…

Yet they are still the king of single threaded performance (barely). I'm not so quick to rule out Intel, even if I have no love for them. While the M1 was extremely impressive from a power efficiency standpoint, I think the jury is far from out on whether Apple will be able to take those gains and scale them to serious computers.

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#118

Post by brighton36 »

intricatedetail wrote: post #70
rubyist5eva wrote: post #12

Intel is on my shitlist now for their new "Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity" with Microsoft and Adobe. I don't care how fast their CPUs are, they are dead to me.

Oh this is dreadful. I moved to AMD this year. Do you know good alternative to After Effects on PC? If I could get that going I could stop my Adobe sub.

That program is an amazing piece of software. It would be nice if there were an open source version...

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#119

Post by hnISmongoguy »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #81
walrus01 wrote: post #63

I see nothing in this review that would make me choose the Intel part over a Ryzen 5800X.

Price is the biggest factor. You can get 10 cores with Intel for cheaper than 8 with AMD, plus with Intel you get integrated graphics as well which is really important right now considering the GPU shortage. Also, Intel allows virtual GPUs for virtualization in QEMU which AMD won't do.

Oh wow, I didn't know HN still had knowledgeable commentators! (I thought it was a competition to say BLUE COMPANY BAD GREEN COMPANY GOOD in various ways).

So OP assuming I still want to buy an AMD because of its ECC support, (and can get my hands on a GPU), can you point me somewhere so that I can read about the last point you made. (EDIT: haven't researched but https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-with-graphics has integrated?)

Can you also list any other factors that I should weight in my decision, specifically against AMD?

I do wonder how good the secure enclave offerings of both platforms are. So far I am left believing that Intel's is actually mature and AMDs is not.

Re: Intel Core I7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

#120

Post by lukevp »

nightski wrote: post #117
StillBored wrote: post #111

Sad, 10 years of nothing from intel but single digit uplifts and increasing power. I think apple sort of proves that there is plenty of single threaded perf uplift available with the right designs (aka one not designed for a server). Even AMD traditionally trailing is easily surpassing them now too, the AMD core that is easily matching or beating them isn't even close to the best desktop part they have (and rightfull…

Yet they are still the king of single threaded performance (barely). I'm not so quick to rule out Intel, even if I have no love for them. While the M1 was extremely impressive from a power efficiency standpoint, I think the jury is far from out on whether Apple will be able to take those gains and scale them to serious computers.

Where are you getting that they’re the king of single thread? That was true (barely) last gen of AMD, and is not true anymore. AMD is better at single and multi core as well as power efficiency. From the article:

> Our results clearly show that Intel’s performance, while substantial, still trails its main competitor, AMD. In a core-for-core comparison, Intel is slightly slower and a lot more inefficient.

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