Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Looking at the small amount of users they sent to this landing page, I would call the results inconclusive The statistic say otherwise. A 29% bump with a 1% margin of error is not inconclusive; it's virtually the very definition of a conclusive result. > You can ramble off statistics to me all day long, but you can't change the fact that humans don't behave when the predictable that coin flips and physics do. And y…
> A 29% bump with a 1% margin of error is not inconclusive; it's virtually the very definition of a conclusive result. Well, no, it's a set of numbers with percentage signs after them. Perhaps the documentation for Optimizely specifies how their error margins etc. are derived, but nothing in the linked article does as far as I can see. Without knowing that underlying reasoning, all those pretty graphs and percentages…
Optimizely (YC W10) Increases Homepage Conversion Rate by 29%
31–40 of 49 posts
Re: Optimizely (YC W10) Increases Homepage Conversion Rate by 29%
#32We've been using Optimizely more and more extensively (we have a slightly unusual use case for it), and it's been fantastic at successfully ratcheting up conversions. We use it in concert with mixpanel when we need to push people along a funnel. The tool's insanely easy to implement, a joy to use, and I get to rely on them to tell me when something is statistically meaningful.
What is your slightly unusual use case?
It's an interesting combination with mixpanel. If we could get one more thing from Mixpanel, we'd really be set - I'm bugging them, we'll see if they come out with it!
Re: Optimizely (YC W10) Increases Homepage Conversion Rate by 29%
#33Re: Optimizely (YC W10) Increases Homepage Conversion Rate by 29%
#34A Bayesian would understand this in terms of prior probabilities and likelihood ratios, but to put it into nontechnical terms, suppose that you tried out 15 different alterations and none of them seem to work. Then on the 16th, your detector goes off and says, "Less than 5% probability of these results arising by chance!" Do you conclude that it's 95% likely that this version is genuinely better? No, because the first 15 failed attempts told you that improving this webpage is actually pretty hard (the prior probability of an effective improvement is low), and now when you see that the 16th attempt has a result with a less than 5% probability of arising from chance, you figure "Eh, it's worth testing further, but probably it is just chance."
Another extremely important point is that the classical statistics you learned to use to decide that something was some trial, that your running total of results is "statistically significant", when A and B are actually identically effective, is considerably greater than 5%. See http://lesswrong.com/lw/1gc/frequentist_statistics_are_frequ... - a trial I ran with 500 fair coinflips had at least one step where the cumulative data "rejected the null hypothesis with p You're not really to blame for this mistake, because the horrid non-Bayesian classical statistics taught in college are just about impossible to understand clearly; but it does sound to me like someone at your org needs to study (a) Bayes's Theorem (b) the case for reporting likelihood ratios rather than p-values (likelihood ratios are objective, p-values decidedly not) and (c) the beta distribution conjugate prior (which would make progress toward having priors and likelihood ratios over "These two pages have a single unknown conversion rate" or "These two pages have different unknown conversion rates"). Or in simpler terms, "Someone at your company needs to study Bayesian statistics, stat."
Re: Optimizely (YC W10) Increases Homepage Conversion Rate by 29%
#35Dear Optimizely: Your statistics do not tell you that B has a 95% chance of being better than A. Your statistics tell you when the excess of B over A has less than 5% probability, assuming B and A are actually equally effective. A Bayesian would understand this in terms of prior probabilities and likelihood ratios, but to put it into nontechnical terms, suppose that you tried out 15 different alterations and none of…
>> Another extremely important point is that the classical
>> statistics you learned to use to decide that something
>> was >> decided in advance to do exactly that many trials and
>> then stop.
I agree. Not doing that I'd say it's "fudging with the numbers". I can't find on their article where they did this though.
Re: Optimizely (YC W10) Increases Homepage Conversion Rate by 29%
#36How does Optimizely compare with Visual Website Optimizer?
While Optimizely is strictly A/B testing, VWO is a much more comprehensive testing tool. In addition to A/B testing, we support Multivariate testing, Split URL testing, Heatmap/Clickmap, Targeting/Segmentation and Revenue Tracking. VWO is being used by companies that have sophisticated and comprehensive testing needs (like AMD, Microsoft, Groupon, etc. and thousands of SMBs)
That said Optimizely may be slightly easier to use but with VWO our focus is on both: comprehensiveness of feature set _AND_ ease of use. Since both companies offer free trials, best is to signup for both of them and see which one is better suited to your needs.
Re: Optimizely (YC W10) Increases Homepage Conversion Rate by 29%
#37Dear Optimizely: Your statistics do not tell you that B has a 95% chance of being better than A. Your statistics tell you when the excess of B over A has less than 5% probability, assuming B and A are actually equally effective. A Bayesian would understand this in terms of prior probabilities and likelihood ratios, but to put it into nontechnical terms, suppose that you tried out 15 different alterations and none of…
Re: Optimizely (YC W10) Increases Homepage Conversion Rate by 29%
#38Dear Optimizely: Your statistics do not tell you that B has a 95% chance of being better than A. Your statistics tell you when the excess of B over A has less than 5% probability, assuming B and A are actually equally effective. A Bayesian would understand this in terms of prior probabilities and likelihood ratios, but to put it into nontechnical terms, suppose that you tried out 15 different alterations and none of…
The p-value represents "Probability this is all luck". So why isn't 1 - p "Probability this isn't all luck"? >> Another extremely important point is that the classical >> statistics you learned to use to decide that something >> was >> decided in advance to do exactly that many trials and >> then stop. I agree. Not doing that I'd say it's "fudging with the numbers". I can't find on their article where they did this t…
Lets say I roll a dice two times and get a six both times. The probability of this happening is 1/36 or about 3%.
Would you say I have established with a 95% confidence interval that the particular die I'm using always rolls six? No, because you have good reason to believe that the the results are in fact random. Or in other words, you have a strong prior belief that the hypothesis you're testing is false.
Re: Optimizely (YC W10) Increases Homepage Conversion Rate by 29%
#39This is sorta related but since I concluded the test today and this post is here, I thought I'd share. I ran a 5 way split test for 9 days on my newsletter's signup page (JavaScript Weekly). My original page was the 2nd best performing but an identical page just without the subscriber count got a 8% higher conversion (or about 20% more signups in all) with a 90% confidence at the end of testing. The worst performer?…
Basically, if you're watching it, it won't science.
Re: Optimizely (YC W10) Increases Homepage Conversion Rate by 29%
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
The p-value represents "Probability this is all luck". So why isn't 1 - p "Probability this isn't all luck"? >> Another extremely important point is that the classical >> statistics you learned to use to decide that something >> was >> decided in advance to do exactly that many trials and >> then stop. I agree. Not doing that I'd say it's "fudging with the numbers". I can't find on their article where they did this t…
A better interpretation might be "probability this would happen if results were governed purely by chance". Note that the distinction is important if the process is in fact governed by chance! Lets say I roll a dice two times and get a six both times. The probability of this happening is 1/36 or about 3%. Would you say I have established with a 95% confidence interval that the particular die I'm using always rolls si…
Yes, that is true for the dice roll; You already know most die aren't rigged.
I don't see how this affects the results of optimizely's product; You do not have a strong prior belief if the hypothesis is true or false.
Also note that the number of observations in the article used were in the thousands.