Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

931–940 of 1001 posts

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#931

Post by jmull »

chmod600 wrote: post #913
jmull wrote: post #903

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe in liberty as a principle don't you have to support ebay's decision to decide whether or not they want to sell a particular book? I don't understand their decision here, but so what? It's their store, why should you or I tell or anyone else them what to sell? Woke crazies try to impose their ideology on others by complaining and shaming on the Internet. I think you're doing the same thing here. The dif…

Nobody is suggesting that eBay should be forced to facilitate the sale of a patticular book. The concern is over what society feels is shameful and how it's handled. Right now we are ashamed of things we shouldn't be and the remedy we're choosing is exclusion. That doesn't sound like a formula for success. On top of that, this is all being pushed by a tiny minority that has gained more power than we realized. Surely…

That's all fine. You think eBay should sell those books. I do too.

My question is, who's decision is it to make?

Yours? Mine? The government's (through laws or regulations)? Or ebay's?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#932

Post by wirrbel »

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #742
wirrbel wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold (used copyright law to do that). I once stood in a book shop (teenager, time to look at books but not enough money to buy them) and some skindheads wanted to buy it, it wasn't available. They went away. Providing context is good, but frankly also really difficult and why not just provide newer childrens books that are more inclusive.

Fun anecdote, but what is your larger point? Do you think the skinheads then went on to join a moderate left party because they could actually read their party program? At the point where you are already committed to an ideology to the point you drastically alter your appearance, you are hardly going to be deterred by a slightly harder to get book. On the other hand, I don't see how anyone is going to turn Nazis by r…

> Fun anecdote, but what is your larger point?

I replied to a comment that said that all book-bans would be evaluated to be harmful/net-negative in retrospect. I don't think that this general statement is true and brought up the ban of Mein Kampf as a counterexample. As simple as that.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#933

Post by nindalf »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #905
jmull wrote: post #903

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe in liberty as a principle don't you have to support ebay's decision to decide whether or not they want to sell a particular book? I don't understand their decision here, but so what? It's their store, why should you or I tell or anyone else them what to sell? Woke crazies try to impose their ideology on others by complaining and shaming on the Internet. I think you're doing the same thing here. The dif…

You can support the right to be a Nazi while strongly criticising it. People can say that they really think eBay is doing the wrong thing, and maybe even boycott them, without necessarily saying they should be forced by law to stock children's books that became out of fashion thirty seconds ago.

> You can support the right to be a Nazi while strongly criticising it.

You have the luxury of never having seen your country and culture being taken over by Nazis. Never living with the regret of being tolerant of Nazis. I have. It sucks.

It's so easy to talk in platitudes like this when you know your own life won't be affected in any way. How about supporting the right of QAnon adherents to spread their poisonous propaganda? What about when you see it's support growing rapidly? Would you still support it if it looked like you might be living in a society where the majority are QAnoners?

I know the answer to that question. And so do you.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#934

Post by lodi »

jmull wrote: post #903
lgleason wrote: post #562

As dis-heartening as this story is, compared to a couple of years ago, it is encouraging to see lots of comments from people beginning to wake up to what is going on with this craziness and not being modded here. Free speech is about protecting the right of the un-popular and views that some may find utterly repugnant. Why? because, as we are seeing with all of the woke craziness, when you don't stand up for everyone…

If you believe in liberty as a principle don't you have to support ebay's decision to decide whether or not they want to sell a particular book? I don't understand their decision here, but so what? It's their store, why should you or I tell or anyone else them what to sell? Woke crazies try to impose their ideology on others by complaining and shaming on the Internet. I think you're doing the same thing here. The dif…

> If you believe in liberty as a principle don't you have to support ebay's decision to decide whether or not they want to sell a particular book?

Not exactly, no. Even the most laissez faire among us would probably agree that you need to set and enforce some ground rules to prevent monopolies, externalities, information assymetries, and other market failures. Also ebay isn't a bookseller choosing what books to stock; it's just an exchange for buyers and sellers to directly transact with each other.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#935

Post by grioghar »

NeverFade wrote: post #831
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two kinds of freedom: freedom from and freedom to. These are some children's books that contain illustrations that some people find offensive and the publisher (and sellers) are deciding they no longer want to be associated with and sell to children. There are internet forums where the images are available and people can view them without the police knocking your door down, and I'm sure these are available in…

These are market-dominating book distributors like Amazon and eBay effectively deciding what people can and cannot read. The fact that a few people might still be able to view images of these books (illegally, as they are copyrighted) on some tiny closed forum on the internet isn't a real comfort. In the Soviet Union, there were also tiny isolated pockets where "forbidden books" were surreptitiously copied and read.…

Anyone going to address the Texas/schoolbooks issue tangential to this?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#936

Post by pitspotter »

mancerayder wrote: post #872
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two kinds of freedom: freedom from and freedom to. These are some children's books that contain illustrations that some people find offensive and the publisher (and sellers) are deciding they no longer want to be associated with and sell to children. There are internet forums where the images are available and people can view them without the police knocking your door down, and I'm sure these are available in…

>There's two kinds of freedom: freedom from and freedom to. Wonderful. And where do tech monopolies figure in the world view you've expounded ?

Indeed. Giant technology companies are effectively part of government now. They make and enforce the rules about public discourse.

The libertarian argument used to support censorship is that a private group or business is free to do what it wants. However this misses the increasingly apparent fact that an insufficiently politically correct business in this environment is quickly targeted and perhaps even 'cancelled'.

So we have a systemic problem. Private entities are not truly free just as the de facto government is not truly accountable.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#937

Post by rolicia »

IAmWorried wrote: post #902

I'm thinking about making some kind of "Cancel Cancel Culture" browser extension that would automatically block sites that are known to engage in this kind of totalitarian behavior. I would make it open source and try to raise money with donations. It's not exactly the ideal solution, but I see no way to stop this madness unless we "fight fire with fire" so to speak. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I don't know if that would work. Cancel culture isn't really something that just manifests on websites like this.

For example - what about the major universities, like Harvard and Berkeley that are basically exporting this stuff. Are you going to cancel them?

I agree though that individuals need a way to take action to show that we are opposed to this woke nonsense.

How we can do that...I am not sure

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#938

Post by etblg »

yerwhat01010 wrote: post #804
krrrh wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does this means cartoon caricatures are only acceptable if they are of white westerners? They cancelled Apu from the Simpson’s without understanding that his presence on the show demonstrated a mainstreaming of Indian immigrants, in a similar way that the uncanceled Groundskeeper Willie, Mayor Quimby, and McBain demonstrate the mainstream acceptance of Scottish, Irish, and Austrian immigrants.

I watched The Simpsons religiously growing up and I never realised Mayor Quimby is supposed to be an Irish immigrant. Where is that established? He doesn't have an Irish accent.

He's basically a caricature of a Kennedy.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#940

Post by Chris2048 »

kweinber wrote: post #808
lgleason wrote: post #562

As dis-heartening as this story is, compared to a couple of years ago, it is encouraging to see lots of comments from people beginning to wake up to what is going on with this craziness and not being modded here. Free speech is about protecting the right of the un-popular and views that some may find utterly repugnant. Why? because, as we are seeing with all of the woke craziness, when you don't stand up for everyone…

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from responsibility when your speech offends someone. Progressives aren’t stopping you from reading racist books to your children.... just don’t expect most people to want to sell them to you or pat you on the back for making the next generation toxic against fellow citizens.

> Progressives aren’t stopping you from reading racist books to your children.... just don’t expect most people to want to sell them to you

The people that do want to sell them to you aren't allowed to do so.. meaning you are prevented in reading them.

Post reply on HN