Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay • Hacker News Board

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#921

Post by boatsie » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 4:16 PM UTC

I think this falls into the “if you aren’t anti-racist, you’re racist” category of cancel culture. On the one hand, it sounds like a great idea that everyone should be against racism. However, it quickly becomes a slippery slope as it cascades. These books are racist, thus if you have/sell/buy them, that makes you racist too. And if you don’t do something about it, you should get canceled to. Someone put one of the offensive images on Twitter or Google scraped a site with one? Cancel them too. And if you don’t support canceling all of these things, that means you support these things and should be canceled too.

Taken to the logical conclusion, anyone or anything that’s offended anyone should be canceled. Which is everyone and everything.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#922

Post by wirrbel » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

sossles wrote: post #173

major505 wrote: post #96

I don't know any culture that banned books independent of their content that people didn't regret in the future. A few months ago I was reading about schools banning the book "To Kill a Mockingbird" because it contains basically the "n" word. I'm not american, and and havent read that book. I watched the movie, through, and it seemed to me to be a very anti racism message. I think instead of banning, schools should w…

I've read a few older books with my kids that contained mildly questionable things, like a boy saying that girls can't do certain things, but I much prefer having that awkward conversation about how things used to be, over tossing it all out and pretending things were never any different.

I agree with certain phrases and words. Sometimes I can replace them on the fly with alternatives. At the end, there is only so much you can explain and when I read a bedtime story I seriously don't want to start explaining about colonialism.

Many books have fallen out of use over the decades and one should also consider that the publishing house will probably also have an eye on protecting the unproblematic Dr. Seuss books. Over the long run racial stereotypes will hurt the Seuss brand, by deciding not to publish those, they protect the brand and the sales of the other books.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#923

Post by chmod600 » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

NeverFade wrote: post #915

chmod600 wrote: post #913

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is suggesting that eBay should be forced to facilitate the sale of a patticular book. The concern is over what society feels is shameful and how it's handled. Right now we are ashamed of things we shouldn't be and the remedy we're choosing is exclusion. That doesn't sound like a formula for success. On top of that, this is all being pushed by a tiny minority that has gained more power than we realized. Surely…

Indeed, the arbitrariness of the leftist standards, and how easily and frequently they are liable to change, is in fact the point . President Obama praised, quoted, and recommended Dr. Seuss's books in official press releases throughout his presidency, all the way to his last year as president - 2015: https://nypost.com/2021/03/03/barack-and-michelle-obama-prai... But now, barely 6 years later, the Leftist Mob has co…

"Racism" has come to mean something more like "unclean thoughts" or "original sin" where everyone has it even if you didn't do anything. Every media cycle we get mad and burn a witch who didn't try hard enough to atone for these unclean thoughts.

Sometimes it's just for the sake of fear, sometimes it's for convenience. I wouldn't be surprised if the people who initiated this Dr Seuss hate have a stockpile of his books.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#924

Post by wirrbel » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #628

wirrbel wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold (used copyright law to do that). I once stood in a book shop (teenager, time to look at books but not enough money to buy them) and some skindheads wanted to buy it, it wasn't available. They went away. Providing context is good, but frankly also really difficult and why not just provide newer childrens books that are more inclusive.

Upvoted you to counter the downvotes since this actually does add to the discussion. It's important to remember that the power of Mein Kampf lies in its status as a symbol, not its actual contents. Nobody actually reads Mein Kampf, nor have they ever (just like nobody actually reads the Bible unless they're actual preachers). It was (and still is) about the personality cult of a strong man and his message of power vi…

you know, my great aunt found the book in her attic (it was a gift for her wedding at the time and then it got stowed away quickly when the allies took control).

It is an almost unreadable piece of shit. But, I have no doubt that some people will still read it. I doubt that it would turn 'normal people' into fascists, but 'normal people after falling into a youtube-video rabbit hole with right wing content', I guess suddenly it might be appealing.

Banning the symbols is effective in Germany, the same goes for the swastika. By banning this symbol, the society makes clear that the symbol and what it represents is not desired and not mainstream.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#925

Post by AshWolfy » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

lgleason wrote: post #562

As dis-heartening as this story is, compared to a couple of years ago, it is encouraging to see lots of comments from people beginning to wake up to what is going on with this craziness and not being modded here. Free speech is about protecting the right of the un-popular and views that some may find utterly repugnant. Why? because, as we are seeing with all of the woke craziness, when you don't stand up for everyone…

Free speech doesnt mean an obligation for people to provide you a platform, nobody is obligated to carry my book or let me on tv. You may criticize how that is carried out, but its not anti free speech to say racist cartoons dont need to be published

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#926

Post by wirrbel » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 4:33 PM UTC

dgellow wrote: post #707

wirrbel wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold (used copyright law to do that). I once stood in a book shop (teenager, time to look at books but not enough money to buy them) and some skindheads wanted to buy it, it wasn't available. They went away. Providing context is good, but frankly also really difficult and why not just provide newer childrens books that are more inclusive.

Germany, the country, never banned the book. Instead the right owner, the state of Bavaria, decided to stop its distribution (until 2016 when the copyright expired and a commented version has been published).

indeed, I even mention this in my comment.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#927

Post by wirrbel » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

ptero wrote: post #867

wirrbel wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold (used copyright law to do that). I once stood in a book shop (teenager, time to look at books but not enough money to buy them) and some skindheads wanted to buy it, it wasn't available. They went away. Providing context is good, but frankly also really difficult and why not just provide newer childrens books that are more inclusive.

I am not sure that banning of Mein Kampf has a long-term benefit. If it has not been banned it would likely fade into obscurity instead of becoming a symbol. As a counter-datapoint I grew up in a country that effectively banned religion. One could go to prison for selling a Bible -- subversive literature, yada yada. It worked for a while, but you cannot completely cut the flow of information from the world outside; s…

Its availailable nowadays (they used copyright law to ban the distribution so that no precedent for censorship is created).

But back in the day if you really wanted to read it you would mail-order it from abroad.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#928

Post by wirrbel » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

cygx wrote: post #635

wirrbel wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold (used copyright law to do that). I once stood in a book shop (teenager, time to look at books but not enough money to buy them) and some skindheads wanted to buy it, it wasn't available. They went away. Providing context is good, but frankly also really difficult and why not just provide newer childrens books that are more inclusive.

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold Not as such. Rather, the owner of the copyright - the state of Bavaria, where Hitler had his formal residence - decided not to allow reprints. The copyright expired in 2016, and a new, commented edition has been published which Germans can freely buy for 60€ in bookstores of their choice, including Amazon. However, distribution for reasons other than educational purp…

I seem to have put up a honeypot for nitpicking with my reply (fun fact: I mention that copyright law was employed for that in my original reply)..

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#929

Post by mcguire » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

https://www.seussville.com/statement-from-dr-seuss-enterpris...

Statement from Dr. Seuss Enterprises March 2, 2021

Today, on Dr. Seuss’s Birthday, Dr. Seuss Enterprises celebrates reading and also our mission of supporting all children and families with messages of hope, inspiration, inclusion, and friendship.

We are committed to action. To that end, Dr. Seuss Enterprises, working with a panel of experts, including educators, reviewed our catalog of titles and made the decision last year to cease publication and licensing of the following titles: And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street, If I Ran the Zoo, McElligot’s Pool, On Beyond Zebra!, Scrambled Eggs Super!, and The Cat’s Quizzer. These books portray people in ways that are hurtful and wrong.

Ceasing sales of these books is only part of our commitment and our broader plan to ensure Dr. Seuss Enterprises’s catalog represents and supports all communities and families.

The Dr. Seuss Experience – A wondrous world awaits!

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#930

Post by wirrbel » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

egeozcan wrote: post #582

wirrbel wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold (used copyright law to do that). I once stood in a book shop (teenager, time to look at books but not enough money to buy them) and some skindheads wanted to buy it, it wasn't available. They went away. Providing context is good, but frankly also really difficult and why not just provide newer childrens books that are more inclusive.

I'm a Turkish immigrant in Germany. I've read that book in a country it wasn't banned and I didn't turn out to be a neonazi (Yeah, Turkish "neonazis" who don't like Kurds and Syrians is a thing, unfortunately). It actually helped me fortify my arguments against them. That's why I also used to read many extreme right-wing sites, before they were all erased from the surface of the internet (and I refuse to go "deep").…

I replied to a comment that said that all book-bans are would be evaluated to be harmful/negative in retrospect. I don't think that this general statement is true and brought up the ban of Mein Kampf as a counterexample.

Who knows how harmful Mein Kampf publishing in Germany could have been from 1950-2000, but surely, there was no harm in having it banned.

You must understand that in post-war Germany the threat of fascism still lingered, with successor-parties to Adolph Hitler's NSDAP even managing to get parliament seats in the first parliamentary elections, etc.