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Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

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Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#101

Post by dagmx »

sandworm101 wrote: post #92
cacois wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if proton is creating a much larger linux gamer market (its on of the big reasons I switched to linux as my daily driver), might this new market not soon be able to exert pressure on developers for first-class linux ports? Bit of a potential chicken and egg problem with developers supporting linux natively that proton might help solve.

>> for first-class linux ports? I don't want ports. I want proper linux clients developed alongside the other clients, which is relatively easy under tools like unity. Every developer gives lip service to "maybe linux later" but they never do it. If they aren't doing cross-platform development from day one there is next to zero chance of them doing it later in the dev cycle when such things are far more expensive. Wh…

Relatively easy to build perhaps, but you still need to have a QA team for it, support it after release etc...

That's also assuming they're using an off the shelf engine that is also bug free on those platforms. Both unreal and unity aren't at the same level on Linux as their windows counterparts, and Lord knows I've tried . There's always one more thing that doesn't work and requires workarounds.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#102

Post by galgalesh »

cf wrote: post #83
mewse wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a game on Steam, developed primarily on Linux, and providing a Linux build (in addition to Windows and Mac). Linux makes up approximately 0.5% of my sales. (Mac is about 2%, and Windows is the other ~97%) And from conversations with other developers, these are pretty standard percentages. I make and offer a native Linux build because I wanted to do it, but the financials really aren’t there to justify it from…

Basic question, if someone buys a game to run it through Proton do they look like a Windows or Linux user on your end? How would you feel about games being made available for free to Linux users if it uses Proton. If the game contributes basically nothing to your bottom line and you don't plan to support them anyways, why not? It will only grow the audience more quickly.

Users running a game in proton show up as Linux users, not windows users. Because of this, many games already show a bunch of Linux players even though the game doesn't have a native port.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#103

Post by dfgdghdf »

Zhyl wrote: post #75
dfgdghdf wrote: post #67

My problem with Proton is that they are not strict enough with their ratings. I see a game has "platinum" or "gold" support and think "great, this will work well!" but then I discover it crashes after alt-tab and multiplayer doesn't work at all, which I consider critical bugs. To me, the levels should be: * Paltinum - the game works as well as it does on officially supported platforms * Gold - the game works almost a…

I think it's worth differentiating between 'Proton' the compatibility layer technology and 'Proton DB' [0] the review platform and ratings agency. All the problems listed above are purely ProtonDB issues. It would be worth reaching out to the ProtonDB admin - he's very receptive to feedback. [0] https://protondb.com

Good point; I did not know this.

However, as a regular user, I assumed ProtonDB was also Valve, and that will be the main contact point for many.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#104

Post by yepthatsreality »

throwaway3699 wrote: post #46
yepthatsreality wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SteamOS development was only contracted-out by Valve and while many like the notion of it, SteamOS is barely different than building a Linux machine and setting Big Picture Mode to execute on startup.

Really? I thought it was developed in-house. From what I understand much of their company was focused around Linux at the time (Steam, SteamOS, Hardware, Source engine port, L4D2, etc...).

Yes, really.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#105

Post by sandworm101 »

matt123456789 wrote: post #100
sandworm101 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Proton creates a dangerous market pressure. The linux+proton user is the ideal customer for a game developer: someone paying full price but to whom you owe absolutely no obligations. Bug reports from Proton users can be safely ignored. They should feel lucky if the game even started under their not-supported hack of an operating system. But those who purchase a native linux client (KSP, Factorio, Prison Archi…

It does create a dangerous market pressure, but entirely by accident. Valve has developed an amazing piece of software in Proton and made it freely available, but offered no support for developers. Proton is an enormous library papering over an equally enormous API gap between Windows and Linux. Normally when game developers use such components (like engines) they pay a licensing fee, so that when something breaks, i…

Proton is not a ground-up valve product. It is an implementation of WINE, a project that has been around for a long while. Valve made it pretty and easy to use, integrating wine into their launchers, but it isn't entirely their project.

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#106

Post by sandworm101 »

k__ wrote: post #6
ThaDood wrote: post #4

Proton is the reason I moved from a Windows + MacOS machine to GNU/Linux full time. I understand the concern that some hardcore enthusiasts might have about it making devs lazy when it comes to developing native ports but to be honest I don't care. I am just glad to have a simple method of gaming on GNU/Linux. Proton plus Lutris and the slew other tools that have come out in recent years has made the transition to GN…

How good does this work with things like Oculus Quest, SteamVR, etc.? Are there any performance implications?

I own a valve index. I use it only on linux (mint) via proton. I can say that it does work. There are quirks. don't expect it to be seemless. For instance, more than half the time I start SteamVR but have to then "restart" the headset. Once it is working it is working.

Not all VR games support linux but many do, probably a higher proportion than amongst non-VR games. VR games tend to come from smaller developers who are generally not implementing the things that bork linux (eg DRM).

IMho now is not the time to get into VR, on any OS. You need a serious graphic card. Whatever you are running now, you will want something better once you plug in a VR headset. Good luck with that atm.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#107

Post by chmod775 »

lukeschlather wrote: post #85
Barrin92 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also from several game devs I've talked to, not only is the market share negligible, the bug reports aren't. Common sentiment was that Linux was ~1% of their sales but a third of complaints.

This probably reflects the character of Linux users more than Linux. To really unpack that you need to properly categorize the complaints: (Linux platform bug, Cross-platform bug, User error.) If 50% of the bugs are real cross-platform issues, then ditching Linux saves a lot less than you think (and you're potentially losing some high-quality free QA.)

This. Most of the Windows users in my circles wouldn't even think of writing bug reports, whereas many Linux users are developers, often immediately think of writing a bug report, and are also technical enough to do it[1].

[1] It takes some technical experience to make an educated guess of where the problem lies. Drivers? OS? Game? Hardware? And if you're on Windows: Some gaming overlay? AV?

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#108

Post by lghh »

I found that though not everything runs under Proton, there are enough games that do that I can allow Proton to be my filter of what I play and don't. There are too many games that I want to play but just don't have the time to that Proton let me naturally narrow that list. I may miss out on something I REALLY want to play, but it's okay. There are just too many good games.

Re: Valve's Proton Has Enabled 7000 Windows Games on Linux

#109

Post by moistbar »

explodingcamera wrote: post #55

While it is definitely not streamlined and very expensive, I've had a wonderful experience running a Windows VM and passing one of my GPUs through to it. Even VR works flawlessly, which is otherwise unusable on a linux desktop. Proton definitely still has major issues. A lot of the well-rated games on protondb are barely playable. Still, I've played a lot of games using it I otherwise wouldn't be able to experience.

Hearing that VR works well with passthrough makes me want to try it again. I remember when I last tried it, everything worked great except for sound, which was staticky and choppy unless I handed the whole soundcard over to the VM.
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