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Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people

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Re: Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people

#271

Post by InitialLastName »

onebot wrote: post #142
bena wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bit about a vegetarian diet being associated with a higher incidence of cancer is kind of jarring to me. As I've always heard that leaning more towards whole/raw foods and more vegetables were better for avoiding cancer. Now that may be because of your top point, most of the meat consumed in the US is processed in some way. I think the biggest culprit of meat-related cancer (?) is preserved meats. I don't know. I…

The reality is that there is a difference between vegan/vegetarian and whole food plant based diets. I am sure if you eat beyond burgers (processed meatless patties) everyday, you aren't doing your health any favors. I mean potato chips are vegan. French fries are vegan, etc. The key is whole foods. Unprocessed foods.

Fun fact: Oreos are vegan, still magically not good for you.

Re: Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people

#272

Post by vlod »

mleonhard wrote: post #268
thaumasiotes wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not. My favorite trivia here is a study which documented that, of people who self-describe as "vegetarian", one third will admit to having eaten meat in the past one (1) week.

I eat mostly vegan and I have a bite of meat from my partner's plate about once a week. I want to share in her culinary experiences. A week has 21 meals. If you eat 3 types of food per meal, you will make 63 food choices per week. A person can choose meat for one of those 63 choices (1.6%) and still be a vegetarian. Many folks choose meat for 30% or more of their diet.

I don't know where you get your definition of a vegetarian.

Eating meat 1.6% means your NOT a vegetarian, it just means your 'mostly' vegetarian.

I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with people eating meat, but most vegetarians I know (myself included), who are in it for moral reasons would take offense at that definition.

Re: Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people

#273

Post by Karawebnetwork »

vlod wrote: post #252
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who cut meat out of her diet, I can attest to that. On days when we have time to cook, we make good, healthy meals. However, unhealthy alternatives are always present and very tempting. The curfew has been hard for me and I have resumed my bad habits. I ate plant-based burgers, non-dairy ice cream, cookies and cakes almost every day. Most fast-food restaurants near me will ship from apps and offer meat-fre…

Plant-based food generally means whole grain, minimally or unrefined. The things you mention wouldn't fall under that category, just vegetarian junk food.

I have never seen this, but it might be a difference in regulations between countries. Whole grain and unrefined are two different labels that are not related to the fact that the food is plant-based.

- Harvey uses Lightlife burgers which are made with pea protein.

- A&W uses Beyond Meat which is made using beans along with beet juice for the coloring.

- Oggi's frozen pizzas made with Beyond Meat, cauliflower as the crust and vegan mozzarella (coconut milk).

- Coconut Bliss makes ice cream is using coconut milk.

- Cookies and bars made of fermented vegan proteins contains hemp, quinoa sprouts, alfalfa, spirulina, mung bean sprouts.

Those are all plant-based alternatives and are advertised as such. They are vegan junk food since they avoid animal products such as eggs and dairy.

An example of vegetarian junk food would be Quest's spinach & mushroom pizzas which use no meat at all but will use animal cheese.

Re: Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people

#274

Post by vlod »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #273
vlod wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plant-based food generally means whole grain, minimally or unrefined. The things you mention wouldn't fall under that category, just vegetarian junk food.

I have never seen this, but it might be a difference in regulations between countries. Whole grain and unrefined are two different labels that are not related to the fact that the food is plant-based. - Harvey uses Lightlife burgers which are made with pea protein. - A&W uses Beyond Meat which is made using beans along with beet juice for the coloring. - Oggi's frozen pizzas made with Beyond Meat, cauliflower as the…

Not an authoritative source just a fyi, the forksoverknives [0] (informative film if you've not seen it) site:

- Whole foods describes natural foods that are not heavily processed. That means whole, unrefined, or minimally refined ingredients. - Plant-based means food that comes from plants and doesn’t include animal ingredients such as meat, milk, eggs, or honey.

I've mostly seen the term 'plant-based' to differentiate between stuff you probably shouldn't be eating (all vegrtarian: french-fries, potato-chips, oreos, beyond meat (heavily processed [1]), non meat pizza with real-milk cheese) to stuff you should be eating: fresh-fruit, vegetables, whole grains, beans, nuts etc.

i.e. if what your eating tastes REALLY good, made by a robot, comes out of a box with lots of fat/oil, salt, sugar, then it's mostly likely not in the range of plant-based diet (AFAIK). Technically ketchup is a vegetable [2]! :)

Note: I'm not criticizing you for eating any of this, that's your choice, I think that a lot of evil corps are probably mis-labeling these products as pseudo healthy (and maybe they are compared to the original versions), but whether one should be inserting them into your body is subject to opinion.

[0] https://www.forksoverknives.com/how-tos/plant-based-primer-b...

[1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/impossible-and-beyond-ho...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup_as_a_vegetable

Re: Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people

#275

Post by Karawebnetwork »

vlod wrote: post #274
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never seen this, but it might be a difference in regulations between countries. Whole grain and unrefined are two different labels that are not related to the fact that the food is plant-based. - Harvey uses Lightlife burgers which are made with pea protein. - A&W uses Beyond Meat which is made using beans along with beet juice for the coloring. - Oggi's frozen pizzas made with Beyond Meat, cauliflower as the…

Not an authoritative source just a fyi, the forksoverknives [0] (informative film if you've not seen it) site: - Whole foods describes natural foods that are not heavily processed. That means whole, unrefined, or minimally refined ingredients. - Plant-based means food that comes from plants and doesn’t include animal ingredients such as meat, milk, eggs, or honey. I've mostly seen the term 'plant-based' to differenti…

Oh, by all mean it is unhealthy food. The nutritional labels are quite clear that they contain too much fat, sugar and calories.

But they are still plant-based and do not contain any animal products.

I eat a vegan diet for one single reason and that is to avoid voting with my wallet for the continuation of factory farming. I do not care about any other parts of the vegan philosophy and/or lifestyle.

Those items are plant-based products and do not claim anything else. I do agree that they are not part of a healthy plant-based diet but that is a different topic altogether.

Re: Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people

#276

Post by User23 »

mleonhard wrote: post #267
User23 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To further concur, when I was engineering my own body composition improvement plan I quickly learned to completely ignore any study that wasn’t performed in a controlled metabolic ward. Which is, essentially, a voluntary prison. Needless to say participant compensation is considerably more costly than the totally unscientific alternatives so such studies are rare.

Can you share some links to studies done in a metabolic ward that contradict survey-based studies?

I don't have any links handy, this was years ago and I didn't save them. Scholar search or something similar should find you plenty of hits though for metabolic ward. My interest was primarily in nutrient partitioning and thermic effects of food. I want to clarify that I don't claim that survey-based studies necessarily or even predominantly make incorrect claims, just that I am not satisfied with their basis for making such claims.

Re: Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people

#277

Post by tweetle_beetle »

tomp wrote: post #197
kritiko wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study’s funding is included in the study: Funding This work was supported by the Wellcome Trust, Our Planet Our Health (Livestock, Environment and People - LEAP) [grant number 205212/Z/16/Z]; Cancer Research UK [grant numbers C8211/A19170 and C8211/A29017]; and the UK Medical Research Council [grant number MR/M012190/1]. AP-C is supported by a Cancer Research UK Population Research Fellowship [grant number C60192…

Actually, looks like the Gateses have in the past funded the Wellcome Trust. https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/Quick-Links/Gran...

The Wellcome Trust is a huge organisation that receives funding from many sources and funds a huge number of projects with it. And they are just one of several funders of this project.

If Bill Gates was that desperate to control what you eat, I'd suggest he could find more effective ways than funding completed unrelated work specifically at the Wellcome Trust starting a decade ago, in the hope that one day he could use his connections to pressure them to give a modest amount of their own money to a study that will likely not have any major impact politically.

This looks to me like a desperate attempt to find an agenda where there isn't one, verging on constituency theory terrain.

Re: Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people

#278

Post by bookmarkable »

bigfudge wrote: post #257
bookmarkable wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has been figured out, it is just heavily lobbied against. In general, you have to flip normal. Every time I get my Butcherbox pasture raised beef out of the freezer, I'm aggravated they have to print "pasture raised"... that should be the standard, not the luxury brand. A few ideas off the cuff... - Make food companies label non-organic food and say why they aren't organic, vs. making organic declare thems…

I agree with most of this, but what specifically is wrong with grinding up hundreds of animals (apart from sounding gross)?

Risk of disease spread. Many outbreaks (mad cow, etc) were larger problems than they should have been because cattle from various farms had been mixed.

It also complicates source tracing for any other problem - bad feed, importing rules, etc.

Re: Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people

#279

Post by virtuallynathan »

nkozyra wrote: post #34
virtuallynathan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you eat almost exclusively red meat, and not the things that commonly go with it, it’s quite hard to get fat. Meat is very very satiating.

Study: Exclusive Meat Consumption and Risk of Rickets and Scurvy in Low BMI Individuals

Eat some sardines and cod liver too for vitamin D. Scurvy doesn’t occur, fresh meat contains vitamin C, about 10-15mg per lb.

Re: Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people

#280

Post by virtuallynathan »

oblio wrote: post #37
virtuallynathan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you eat almost exclusively red meat, and not the things that commonly go with it, it’s quite hard to get fat. Meat is very very satiating.

Yeah, but there's also gout.

Eating meat does not seem to cause gout, fructose and ethanol seem to be the big players.
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