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The Dangerous Mr. Khan

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Re: The Dangerous Mr. Khan

#201
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're allowed to possess opinions and positions that are controversial. It's not illegal to have point of view that challenges the mainstream. From my POV, the Khan Academy view of history described here is utter bunk and doesn't really give a good historical perspective. I'm shocked, shocked to hear that K-12 history is garbage! K-12 history curriculum has always been garbage pushing somebody's agenda. Until the 80'…

All attempts to write about history is pushing someone's agenda. I bear no illusions that history writing is agenda free. But the stories of the white where no less relevant or important, they just needed to be mixed with other perspectives. And that is to me what history is. Perspective. There are no right or wrong perspectives. There are simply perspectives trying to describe to the best of their vantage point.

"All attempts to write about history is pushing someone's agenda."

On the other hand, if anyone is looking to read history written from a dispassionate, objective point of view, I heartily recommend "100 Decisive Battles from Ancient Times to the Present".

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/315/books/100%20Decisive%20Battles%2...

Re: The Dangerous Mr. Khan

#202
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He shows someone video not produced by us. Then does a small interview of a handful of people who watched those non-Khan Academy videos. Then he uses their lack of understanding to impugn Khan Academy. The person who made this video clearly cares more about their agenda than real science. The irony is also thick with him using a video to try to explain that videos can't explain things.

Wait ... what? Did you even watch the whole video? First of all, he says all kinds of positive things about the work you're doing. "Impugn Khan Academy"? Really? Second, he is explaining physics education research that he himself did for his Ph.D thesis. He's using examples from his own work to make comparisons in technique to what worked and what didn't work in his own, actually objectively tested research. This is…

Haha-- clearly this is an example of the ineffectiveness of videos. Khan's preconceived ideas have prevented him from learning what was presented!

On a more serious note, however, as a science educator, I appreciate the Khan Academy's work to make these very clear educational resources available to all. They definitely can be useful in many ways. Now if only my district would un-block YouTube...

However, I have to agree with many points Frank and others bring up. I have taught for 5 years--my first 4, I worked relentlessly to provide thorough and clear explanations for all the science concepts I taught. And I was baffled when I graded my final exams and found that my students learned little to nothing from 9 months of clear explanations and practice. Last summer, I learned about Modeling Physics (http://modeling.asu.edu/) and implemented it in my physics and chemistry classes this year. Now, my students have rocked their final exams and shown huge improvements from pre- to post-test on standardized instruments. This is simply my experience, but there really is significant physics education research which points to the same conclusions.

Educators are not trying to belittle or denigrate anyone. However, we have to protest when so many resources and media attention are being given to a method of instruction that has been shown to be rather ineffective, particularly in science, when incredible alternatives are available but are, unfortunately, largely being ignored and unfunded.

Re: The Dangerous Mr. Khan

#203
post #17

+1 for the idea that history is more than an "incoherent torrent of factoids" I heard Khan say recently on the Colbert Report that he read the Wikipedia article on the French Revolution as his source before making his video on the subject. That's fine for his purposes, but somewhere up the information food chain someone must actually read the sources, weigh them, interpret, compare, and do all the other work of under…

his math and finance videos might be quite good [...] But I haven't watched them You may want to try watching a few first. Based on the amount of praise Khan received on HN, I had high hopes. So I did watch a few, and I was disappointed. I'm not sure what I was expecting. I think on HN a lot of people love the concept of online education that Khan represents, but many have not bothered to seriously try it.

Coming into a Khan Academy video expecting visual effects (or any effects for that manner) that make a video "impressive" is missing the point. For many, the lectures of a teacher are lost time. Some students (myself included) have struggled to pay attention, struggled to grasp the material, and struggled to relate. What I wouldn't give for some of the years back that I let lectures pass me by without any understanding whatsoever. Being able to go home after class and watch (and re-watch) Khan Academy videos has been instrumental in my learning.

That isn't to say (and I don't think Sal would say this either) that Khan Academy is the end-all of the new online education. Far from it. But it gives students a new opportunity for easy-to-access lectures, and it gives teachers a new paradigm on the "classroom experience". Check out Sal's TED talk for more on that (http://www.ted.com/talks/salman_khan_let_s_use_video_to_rein...).

As an MBA student, I was a tutor and mentor for local middle-school students, and for some there was the sense that school and education had passed them by. They either weren't interested in learning, or their teachers had given up on them, or their family life wasn't currently conducive to learning. Knowing all the details to Conic Sections, understanding discount rates, or the French Revolution isn't what is crucial for them. Having a learning experience they can control and interact with is what is most important. Khan's videos are by definition eternally patient, and will even wait for you to look something up in Google or on Wikipedia before continuing. There is no shame involved here - only learning. To criticize Sal Khan is a real shame. For a society of scholars to do it is absolutely wrong in my eyes. Good for you Sal, and good luck!

Re: The Dangerous Mr. Khan

#204
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All attempts to write about history is pushing someone's agenda. I bear no illusions that history writing is agenda free. But the stories of the white where no less relevant or important, they just needed to be mixed with other perspectives. And that is to me what history is. Perspective. There are no right or wrong perspectives. There are simply perspectives trying to describe to the best of their vantage point.

"All attempts to write about history is pushing someone's agenda." On the other hand, if anyone is looking to read history written from a dispassionate, objective point of view, I heartily recommend "100 Decisive Battles from Ancient Times to the Present". http://dl.dropbox.com/u/315/books/100%20Decisive%20Battles%2...

Having the words you write be dispassionate and objective doesn't mean you lack an agenda. Everything written ever picks a small set of facts to consider from an effectively infinite set of facts.

The choice of which facts to include, moreover, represents a fairly strong bias; it says that this set of facts is more interesting or important or whatever than most other sets, and enough so that you should ignore all the other sets for the moment and just look at this set.

Which, in the case of this particular book, presumably, along with the countless choices about which facts to include about each battle, also includes at least a) the choice of which 100 battles, and b) the choice that battles of any kind are important enough to talk about for a whole book.

So even if the author tries to stay away from expressing an agenda on the usual axes, I doubt he successfully avoids having one altogether.

Re: The Dangerous Mr. Khan

#205
Kahn's videos are what magazines are to books.

It's much more accessible/enjoyable to read a PC magazine than read a technical document. They expose topics to a much broader audience.

I loved the French Revolution videos.

Re: The Dangerous Mr. Khan

#206

Hi Everyone, This is Sal here. I wanted to respond directly on the author's page, but they seem to be having a problem taking comments. The reason why I make history videos is that many people I know (many of whom are quite educated) don't even have a basic scaffold of world events in their minds (or the potential causality between events). Most American high school and college students would find it difficult to giv…

Sal,

Its interesting to see your reaction to the criticism, especially that of being defensive (understandable first reaction). But if you look at the article objectively there are a lot of opportunities it creates for Khan Academy to be even more impactful than what it is today.

You are certainly a great teacher, orator and have the understanding of math and finance. However, one person cannot be good at grasping, understanding and teaching ALL subjects. Thats where you have an opportunity to enlist the best the the brightest teachers from US to create videos for you on subjects they are most passionate about. Why not create a video contest to identify in a democratic way who are these top teachers??

Also, just to answer your point about a teacher's ability to put 20 video online rather than writing criticism. The thing is that you have already gained a lot of fame and respect for your work and its a very difficult thing to do. Its unreasonable to expect a teacher to gain the same level of viewership now like you have. Thats why I say that take the interest that you have developed around you to uplift other teachers to bring up education as a 'whole'.

Otherwise, Kahn Academy will remain a closet work... Just my two cents...

Cheers Ritu

Re: The Dangerous Mr. Khan

#207
post #49

Khan's physics videos are no better. Excerpts below from my series taking a critical view of Khan Academy: http://bit.ly/khancritic ... Ironically, Khan's TED talk is in stark contrast to two previous TED talks: * Dan Meyer - Math Curriculum Makeover http://bit.ly/DanMeyerTED * Sir Ken Robinson - Do Schools Kill Creativity? http://bit.ly/SirKenTED According to Dan, today’s math curriculum is teaching students to expe…

2 million unique students are viewing our videos every month by choice (as opposed to being forced to attend class by the state). Read any of the thousands comments on our YouTube or Facebook page and the underlying feedback from students is that they are finally getting the "why" at the Khan Academy as opposed to the "memorization-paint-by-numbers-what" in their classrooms. Do we think we're ideal? No, we're constan…

"2 million unique students are viewing our videos every month by choice"

Page hits isn't a very good metric if you're trying to get feedback about what viewers actually thought of the videos. A lot of people have heard of Khan Academy through the news or may land there via a search engine. How many of them watch the video all the way through? How many stick around and watch parts II, III, etc.? I could be totally wrong about this (please correct me if that is the case), but my suspicion is that YouTube's stats probably aren't sufficiently granular to distinguish between a page visit in which the viewer watches the video in its entirety (suggesting that the video was perceived as worthwhile) and a visit in which the viewer watches for a little while and then bails (indicating that it was not perceived as a valuable experience). User comments are subject to a great deal of self-selection bias. Viewers who thought the video was the best thing since sliced bread are way more likely to take the time to login (if already registered) or register and login (if not already a registered YouTuber) than those who thought it was a waste of time.

There's also a more fundamentally important question to consider: Did the viewer actually learn the material or were they simply duped into a false belief in their own competency? HN regularly features posts about interviewing techniques aimed at sorting out real programmers who can write code proficiently from people who simply possess a false belief that they are programmers. Sound pedagogical methods require some means of verifying that the student has, in fact, built a valid mental model of the subject matter and, of particular importance in the sciences, is capable of applying their knowledge to reason about novel situations. How do you know that your students actually understand the material? Do you have any way of distinguishing between students who have had a previous formal learning experience with the subject matter and are simply looking for a refresher course, students who are concurrently receiving other instruction (the teacher is using Khan Academy as a supplement), and students who have had no prior exposure to the material?

Re: The Dangerous Mr. Khan

#208
post #112

The way the author writes, it's as if he thinks there is some superior alternative that Khan is displacing. Last I checked, there ain't. Fact is, Khan's videos are considered good because the actual history education that most students take away from classrooms is even worse. Like most other subjects, that's what you get when you try to deliver a comprehensive, objective, detail-oriented education to students who (wi…

it's as if he thinks there is some superior alternative that Khan is displacing. Last I checked, there ain't. Yes, that's what I was thinking. The stuff the author quotes sounds bad, but probably better than you'd get from some teachers I had. Plus on the Internet kids can watch these videos at any age. His simplified version of history could be way better than what e.g. an 8 year old might otherwise have access to.

His simplified version of history could be way better than what e.g. an 8 year old might otherwise have access to.

I've had four different eight-year-olds in my household, while living in two different countries, over the years, and any eight-year-old who is literate can find better information about history than what's in the current Khan Academy videos in any country where there is a public lending library. There is the issue, of course, of some students not having access to libraries, but there is also the issue of some students not having access to the Internet. In the best case, Salman Khan will implement his plan of having subject matter experts who have specialized knowledge of various topics (gained, in part, from their years of using libraries assiduously) produce a broader array of Khan Academy videos, and curious eight-year-olds will go beyond both Khan Academy and their school lessons by seeking out other sources of information on a variety of subjects. That's what I encourage my four children to do. Khan Academy is one of a huge variety of sources we use in homeschooling. In my day, as a pupil in a typical public school, I avidly supplemented my school lessons by reading library books. If Khan Academy is part of encouraging more young learners to be more curious and to seek out a greater variety of sources for their learning, more power to it.

Re: The Dangerous Mr. Khan

#209
post #112

The way the author writes, it's as if he thinks there is some superior alternative that Khan is displacing. Last I checked, there ain't. Fact is, Khan's videos are considered good because the actual history education that most students take away from classrooms is even worse. Like most other subjects, that's what you get when you try to deliver a comprehensive, objective, detail-oriented education to students who (wi…

it's as if he thinks there is some superior alternative that Khan is displacing. Last I checked, there ain't. Yes, that's what I was thinking. The stuff the author quotes sounds bad, but probably better than you'd get from some teachers I had. Plus on the Internet kids can watch these videos at any age. His simplified version of history could be way better than what e.g. an 8 year old might otherwise have access to.

[deleted]

Re: The Dangerous Mr. Khan

#210

Hi Everyone, This is Sal here. I wanted to respond directly on the author's page, but they seem to be having a problem taking comments. The reason why I make history videos is that many people I know (many of whom are quite educated) don't even have a basic scaffold of world events in their minds (or the potential causality between events). Most American high school and college students would find it difficult to giv…

Sal, Its interesting to see your reaction to the criticism, especially that of being defensive (understandable first reaction). But if you look at the article objectively there are a lot of opportunities it creates for Khan Academy to be even more impactful than what it is today. You are certainly a great teacher, orator and have the understanding of math and finance. However, one person cannot be good at grasping, u…

Maybe Khan is trying to appeal to a global crowd greater than subjective US politics we call "history". Do you realize how much history has happened since the beginning of man? And how much of that is completely useless to know? Paraphrasing is most appropriate, but not to the liking of this academic with a blog. He helped start Wikipedia, he's not a complete nobody.
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