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Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

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Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#711

Post by hef19898 »

cygx wrote: post #635
wirrbel wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold (used copyright law to do that). I once stood in a book shop (teenager, time to look at books but not enough money to buy them) and some skindheads wanted to buy it, it wasn't available. They went away. Providing context is good, but frankly also really difficult and why not just provide newer childrens books that are more inclusive.

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold Not as such. Rather, the owner of the copyright - the state of Bavaria, where Hitler had his formal residence - decided not to allow reprints. The copyright expired in 2016, and a new, commented edition has been published which Germans can freely buy for 60€ in bookstores of their choice, including Amazon. However, distribution for reasons other than educational purp…

It was not on sale until 2016 because Bavaria refused to publish it. When the copyright expired, they published a commented version. And as far as I know, that version is in free circulation. Using it to preach would be a potential crime so.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#712

Post by timcederman »

foofoo4u wrote: post #444
nph5667 wrote: post #29

What bothers me is the speed with which this process - "accused -> convinced -> executed" happens. We are not discussing things anymore. Today, you could tweet any accusations, and, no matter how ridiculous they look at first, it will lead to a race of who is taking them most seriously. Something definitely is broken. Look at what happened to the "okay". 4chan forced that meme 5 years ago in what they thought is a mi…

Link to support your statement. San Jose State University bans the "okay" symbol https://sjsunews.com/article/sjsu-bans-spartan-up-gesture-fo... . It was a symbol used for decades. Now, overnight, it is something that can get a student suspended.

"Overnight". Swastikas and salutes become appropriated by the Nazis, and suddenly the pledge of allegiance in America became a hand over heart, instead of the Bellamy salute. Do you think that was wrong too?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#713

Post by crististm »

Shish2k wrote: post #685
lgleason wrote: post #562

As dis-heartening as this story is, compared to a couple of years ago, it is encouraging to see lots of comments from people beginning to wake up to what is going on with this craziness and not being modded here. Free speech is about protecting the right of the un-popular and views that some may find utterly repugnant. Why? because, as we are seeing with all of the woke craziness, when you don't stand up for everyone…

> as we are seeing with all of the woke craziness People (eg, sex workers) have been getting deplatformed (often with the government assisting in - or requiring - the deplatforming!) for decades, and I didn’t hear the free-speech / right-wing types complaining. But now that some private companies don’t want to support racism, it’s a brand new problem we need to fight against? :P (I agree with the overall point that c…

De-platforming for decades?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#714

Post by legutierr »

globular-toast wrote: post #625
lgleason wrote: post #562

As dis-heartening as this story is, compared to a couple of years ago, it is encouraging to see lots of comments from people beginning to wake up to what is going on with this craziness and not being modded here. Free speech is about protecting the right of the un-popular and views that some may find utterly repugnant. Why? because, as we are seeing with all of the woke craziness, when you don't stand up for everyone…

It's not just about it being eventually turned on you. Someone else's freedom of speech is also your freedom to hear what they have to say. Otherwise you accept that someone else is deciding what you can and can't read.

There is a long history in the United States of independent book publishers printing content that the mainstream press wouldn’t touch. It has never been the case in the US that truly controversial material could expect to have access to the biggest platforms.

What is the difference now, except that racially-insensitive material has replaced, say, pro-Soviet material as being too controversial for the biggest platforms to want to sully their brands with it?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#715

Post by dragonwriter »

4ggr0 wrote: post #639
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word you are referring to is nigger. It’s a bad word that can be very offensive. It’s horrible to use it in a derogatory way, but I feel that it’s ridiculous in at least halfway intelligent conversation no one white even dare ever write it, let alone say it. As if white people have enforced themselves to just pretend the word has magic powers and it is the one who shall not be named. That’s giving an enormous amo…

There are two things I can't quite comprehend as someone who's not from the US. * Why exactly the n-word is exclusive to black people. In my mind, either no one uses the word if it's offensive, or everyone can use it in a neutral way. I don't know of any other single word which is gatekept. I mean, I never want to use it, so it's not about that. I guess it has to do with pride and being able to use a word which was o…

> Why exactly the n-word is exclusive to black people.

It's...not.

> Isn't it a better sign if I as a white dude like other cultures food, clothing etc.? That should signal to these cultures that I appreciate, accept and like them, right?

While I personally think some of the specific complaints of cultural appropriation that are made are...well, let's just say not things that I personally think are as problematic as the people raising the complaints seem to, still, no, decontextualized mimicry of isolated elements of culture, or similar consumption of products of the culture, while participating in structures of oppression of the people whose culture is being mined for your entertainment isn't seen by any audience, within or without the exploited culture, as a sign of appreciating, accepting, or liking either the culture (which is an abstract aggregate) or, more critically, the concrete people in the culture.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#716

Post by thinkingemote »

aylmao wrote: post #629

There's some interesting threads here. I do understand the conversation around free speech and censorship has been top of mind lately, but IMO a lot of the comments here are getting carried away and missing a point that is crucial in this instance: these are children's books. As much as I disagree with book-burning and support not only free speech, but also the healthy debate around what it constitutes, I think all o…

Ironically, the books originally targeted for destruction in the novel Fahrenheit 451 were those that society universally found abhorrent to children - bigotry, pornography, racism, sexism etc. (The book then deals with the fallout from that in the years afterwards as any book gets targeted)

"If a child encounters some sexist commentary, the child will absorb and imitate it."

This therefore means that the millions in America and around the world that have read these childrens books as children, or who had these books read to them by their parents are racist and sexist now, right? Or do you believe that children do not really absorb and imitate things they read but in general they might?

Are these books responsible for the shape of society now therefore? Where does your logic take us?

Protecting children is more important than free speech is what I get from your comment. Is that correct?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#717

Post by dragonwriter »

thinkingemote wrote: post #716
aylmao wrote: post #629

There's some interesting threads here. I do understand the conversation around free speech and censorship has been top of mind lately, but IMO a lot of the comments here are getting carried away and missing a point that is crucial in this instance: these are children's books. As much as I disagree with book-burning and support not only free speech, but also the healthy debate around what it constitutes, I think all o…

Ironically, the books originally targeted for destruction in the novel Fahrenheit 451 were those that society universally found abhorrent to children - bigotry, pornography, racism, sexism etc. (The book then deals with the fallout from that in the years afterwards as any book gets targeted) "If a child encounters some sexist commentary, the child will absorb and imitate it." This therefore means that the millions in…

> This therefore means that the millions in America and around the world that have read these childrens books as children, or who had these books read to them by their parents are racist and sexist now.

No, in the same way that not everyone who has been exposed to a potentially lethal environmental hazard is dead.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#718

Post by [deleted] »

globular-toast wrote: post #625
lgleason wrote: post #562

As dis-heartening as this story is, compared to a couple of years ago, it is encouraging to see lots of comments from people beginning to wake up to what is going on with this craziness and not being modded here. Free speech is about protecting the right of the un-popular and views that some may find utterly repugnant. Why? because, as we are seeing with all of the woke craziness, when you don't stand up for everyone…

It's not just about it being eventually turned on you. Someone else's freedom of speech is also your freedom to hear what they have to say. Otherwise you accept that someone else is deciding what you can and can't read.

[deleted]

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#719

Post by pm90 »

Veen wrote: post #672
illirik wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “weapon” here is just basic conscientiousness. A publisher decided to stop publishing some books because they denigrate people, and eBay decided that they did not want to be facilitating the sale of books that denigrate people. We are not talking about an H-bomb - there is no power structure wielding a “cancel button” here.

And yet, eBay does sell a crap load of Mein Kampf editions and gollywogs. The motivation seems to be corporate virtue signalling rather than any commitment to a principle.

This argument seems really silly to me, have you thought this through? It appears to be a “talking point” as a few other right wing sites seem to be making the exact same argument.

The flaw in the argument is that Mein Kampf is not a children’s book. If hitler wrote a popular racist book series for kids, eBay would likely delist that too.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#720

Post by thinkingemote »

dragonwriter wrote: post #717
thinkingemote wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, the books originally targeted for destruction in the novel Fahrenheit 451 were those that society universally found abhorrent to children - bigotry, pornography, racism, sexism etc. (The book then deals with the fallout from that in the years afterwards as any book gets targeted) "If a child encounters some sexist commentary, the child will absorb and imitate it." This therefore means that the millions in…

> This therefore means that the millions in America and around the world that have read these childrens books as children, or who had these books read to them by their parents are racist and sexist now. No, in the same way that not everyone who has been exposed to a potentially lethal environmental hazard is dead.

User aylmao wrote: "Children don't have the same context or critical capacity to decide if a view is good or not. If a child encounters some sexist commentary, the child will absorb and imitate it."

Do you agree with this? Would absorbing and imitating this make them sexist or give them sexist views?

If someone who was exposed to a hazard damaged in some way, even if most would not be dead?

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