Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay • Hacker News Board

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#671

Post by millstone » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 9:12 AM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #636

JKCalhoun wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see anything to get excited about. It's just a sign that the pendulum is about to swing back in the other direction.

How? So far, the big platforms seem to be digging the hole of censorship deeper, and small platforms like Parler are deplatformed. Unless we find a way to circumvent the tight control that smartphone manufacturers have over devices they sell, the only possible haven of free speech would be web on a Windows PC with some specific browsers. Because Google adding you to a list of dirty webs means that people using Chrome…

The big platforms desperately want to be anodyne. They don't want to censor, they just want you to see a funny cat photo, click Like, and come back in ten seconds for the next one.

Deplatforming is an extreme measure when they perceive an existential threat like "abetting an insurrection."

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#672

Post by Veen » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 9:12 AM UTC

illirik wrote: post #592

anonisko wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people support the development of powerful weapons without considering what happens when their enemies get a hold of them.

The “weapon” here is just basic conscientiousness. A publisher decided to stop publishing some books because they denigrate people, and eBay decided that they did not want to be facilitating the sale of books that denigrate people. We are not talking about an H-bomb - there is no power structure wielding a “cancel button” here.

And yet, eBay does sell a crap load of Mein Kampf editions and gollywogs. The motivation seems to be corporate virtue signalling rather than any commitment to a principle.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#673

Post by tester34 » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #620

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word you are referring to is nigger. It’s a bad word that can be very offensive. It’s horrible to use it in a derogatory way, but I feel that it’s ridiculous in at least halfway intelligent conversation no one white even dare ever write it, let alone say it. As if white people have enforced themselves to just pretend the word has magic powers and it is the one who shall not be named. That’s giving an enormous amo…

IT also gives an enormous power to the word itself, and those who want to use it to hurt people.

how's that different from any other insult targeted at e.g nation?

murican, nazi, polack, ching chong?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#674

Post by enriquto » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 9:15 AM UTC

4ggr0 wrote: post #639

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word you are referring to is nigger. It’s a bad word that can be very offensive. It’s horrible to use it in a derogatory way, but I feel that it’s ridiculous in at least halfway intelligent conversation no one white even dare ever write it, let alone say it. As if white people have enforced themselves to just pretend the word has magic powers and it is the one who shall not be named. That’s giving an enormous amo…

There are two things I can't quite comprehend as someone who's not from the US. * Why exactly the n-word is exclusive to black people. In my mind, either no one uses the word if it's offensive, or everyone can use it in a neutral way. I don't know of any other single word which is gatekept. I mean, I never want to use it, so it's not about that. I guess it has to do with pride and being able to use a word which was o…

> Cultural appropriation

This. I'm as left wing as they come, and agree wholeheartedly with 99% of the current far-left discourse. But some of this "cultural appropriation" stuff is just nuts.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#675

Post by inglor_cz » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

millstone wrote: post #671

inglor_cz wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? So far, the big platforms seem to be digging the hole of censorship deeper, and small platforms like Parler are deplatformed. Unless we find a way to circumvent the tight control that smartphone manufacturers have over devices they sell, the only possible haven of free speech would be web on a Windows PC with some specific browsers. Because Google adding you to a list of dirty webs means that people using Chrome…

The big platforms desperately want to be anodyne. They don't want to censor, they just want you to see a funny cat photo, click Like, and come back in ten seconds for the next one. Deplatforming is an extreme measure when they perceive an existential threat like "abetting an insurrection."

Well, building a massive internet forum to sell ads on is not really a recipe to be anodyne, right?

Some users are bound to replay real-world conflicts there. Israelis and Palestinians will scream at each other, Europeans will draw Muhammad cartoons, Rs and Ds will love each other unconditionally as usual... and all this attention sells ads, but also creates uncomfortable side effects.

Political outrage drives engagement much more than cute cats.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#676

Post by jimmydorry » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 9:17 AM UTC

m8s wrote: post #596

alentist wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient." Censorship can be conducted by governments, private institutions, and other controlling bodies. And the first amendment is not a definition of freedom of speech. Read it again.

I still don't see how stopping the sale of an item on a private company's platform equates to denying freedom of speech. If we were talking about a government banning the sale of a specific book, author, or topic, then I absolutely agree. If we are talking about that same government banning specific books from schools, then I absolutely agree. But I don't agree that eBay's move here is denying freedom of speech. They…

Can you name any time in history where the side burning books was in the right?

If as a society we allow companies, that are equal to (if not more powerful than) the government we elect, to pick and choose what parts of public discourse are acceptable or not, we have no one but ourselves to blame when this inevitably goes pear-shaped.

Like many other things in the past, what is legal right now may not be ethically and morally correct in the future.

You are correct that society as we know it does not cease to function immediately after the giants like amazon, facebook, twitter, ebay, etc. take a specific action like banning a book or banning a user. However, the longer term implications are far more concerning and the time to start contemplating these issues was yesterday (or any other time in the last few years). The next best time is now.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#677

Post by dd36 » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 9:18 AM UTC

sol_invictus wrote: post #599

tomdell wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re being downvoted because people here would rather pretend to be heroes standing up to the “woke mob” than acknowledge the reality that nobody is forcing the Seuss estate or even eBay to do anything. No surprise that so many non-white people report problems in tech circles given the moral grandstanding on behalf of some caricatures going on here.

Lets not pretend there are hordes of people on Twitter ready to doxx, harass, publicly shame and do god knows what other things if you’re against the woke mob.

They shouldn’t have that freedom?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#678

Post by berkes » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 9:18 AM UTC

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #607

illirik wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The line is rather stark. eBay choosing not to facilitate the sale of books containing racist caricatures is not in the same ballpark as a government suppressing ideas. It’s not even the same sport.

It might be a thinner line than you think: At the end of the day, governments and private companies are both just big entities with strong influence, specially in monopoly situations. Consider this: If ebay and amazon simultaneously ban one specific book, author, genre, etc.; how much would that decrease their reach?

Isn't there still a big difference between 'decreasing reach' and censorship?

I'm not American, and in my country quite some speech is forbidden or can get you jailed (fuck de koning!).

So maybe for me such state censorship 'forbidding speech' is clearer distinct from 'decreasing the reach of speech'?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#679

Post by dandare » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 9:19 AM UTC

RE books not suitable for kids. My 4 year old asked me to reed him a new book he got from who knows where; It was Noah's Ark picture book, looking like this https://www.google.com/search?q=noah%27s+ark+child+book. Right on the third page "God killed all people because they were wicked". My son was upset and demanded an explanation, which I struggled to provide. I have realised how strange it is that we tolerate child books describing mass murder in the name of religion.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#680

Post by stef25 » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 9:19 AM UTC

illirik wrote: post #592

anonisko wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people support the development of powerful weapons without considering what happens when their enemies get a hold of them.

The “weapon” here is just basic conscientiousness. A publisher decided to stop publishing some books because they denigrate people, and eBay decided that they did not want to be facilitating the sale of books that denigrate people. We are not talking about an H-bomb - there is no power structure wielding a “cancel button” here.

> there is no power structure wielding a “cancel button” here

There absolutely is. Ebay is nipping in the bud a potential social media lynching.

One misstep nowadays and the CEO spends weeks grovelling about how they're still learning and are determined to do better and thank you Twitter mob for pointing this out.

You can't buy Doctor Seuss, but you can buy "The Anarchist Arsenal", hydrogen peroxide, acetone and a few pounds of screws in the same cart.

Edited typo by / buy