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India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

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Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#111

Post by namibj »

unishark wrote: post #78
oarsinsync wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So now you have to wait 180 days for your information to really be removed. So much for privacy. It's also a bit weird in that it is exactly 180 days and not up to or at least which makes it a bit confusing in what its goal is. "Up to 180 days" can result in data being deleted sooner. If data retention is a cost centre rather than a profit centre, the data will be deleted immediately. "At least 180 days" can result…

Seems like that would be interpreted as "at least" to me. Where do they say it must be deleted after the 180 days?

E.g. under GDPR (yes, I know that law likely doesn't apply to this), you need to have a legitimate interest or consent to collect/retain personal information. You don't have to instantly scrub it from your storage, but this 180 day rule would force you to delete it shortly after the 180 days are up, probably within a couple weeks.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#112

Post by naruvimama »

srean wrote: post #89
wtmt wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India still has an independent judiciary... That’s highly questionable depending on the level of the judiciary being discussed. The highest court (Supreme Court) has sided more often with the executive and takes years to start hearing cases of national importance. Some of the High Courts are better.

Ex chief justice agrees with you on how ineffective the supreme court is

Ahh the enlightenment after retirement

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#113

Post by naruvimama »

wtmt wrote: post #86
naruvimama wrote: post #49

This isn't happening in isolation. India's adversaries like China and Pakistan are dictatorships. There is asymmetry in information warfare. The media giants are not exactly neutral and are already involved in content vetting. India still has an independent judiciary, and the democratically elected government has the mandate to regulate.

> India still has an independent judiciary... That’s highly questionable depending on the level of the judiciary being discussed. The highest court (Supreme Court) has sided more often with the executive and takes years to start hearing cases of national importance. Some of the High Courts are better.

If you do not trust the democracy or the judiciary, why are you even bothered by the law.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#114

Post by higerordermap »

srean wrote: post #110
higerordermap wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're underestimating how conservative people are in general. There is a fear of Islam propagation in general populace of India, and there are valid reasons for it. When you have uninformed general populace, it's easy to portray yourselves as protector of the culture and they will become fans of you, and defend every action of you. It doesn't matter you make their lives bad, corruption becomes rampant or economy goe…

I do not disagree with a single sentence in your comment, except what is implied but not stated in the last one. I am willing to be convinced with data that about half of the Indian population support the current events, but haven't encountered any such. Note, only around 60% voted. I will happily agree that at the time of elections around 50% of the 60% that voted was in favor of the BJP led coalition. A person with…

> I don't think __all people__ are from IT Cell.

I stand by this. Some of them seem to be seriously emotionally connected.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#115

Post by thunderbong »

higerordermap wrote: post #106
srean wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get only one vote assuming elections aren't gamed. No such restriction applies for number of accounts

You're underestimating how conservative people are in general. There is a fear of Islam propagation in general populace of India, and there are valid reasons for it. When you have uninformed general populace, it's easy to portray yourselves as protector of the culture and they will become fans of you, and defend every action of you. It doesn't matter you make their lives bad, corruption becomes rampant or economy goe…

I agree with most of your points. However, I'm interested in knowing - what are the valid reasons for Islam propagation in India?

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#116

Post by _bsn2 »

addicted wrote: post #74
_bsn2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who understands English as well, yeah, I have to concur that social media giants like Twitter have gotten more powerful than necessary. The law is just right, and at the right time, nothing stupid about it.

Except the law does nothing to restrict social media companies and everything to restrict people on social media. Someone upstream made a ridiculous comparison to Donald Trump, whose Twitter was shut down because he had just incited violence. Well that was the extent of what was or could be done to him. With this law, and the way the current Indian government acts, your Twitter shutting down would be the least of you…

Not really. The law is not about restricting anyone, but rather about making media houses more accountable by making them store information (for a limited time) regarding the content publishers and furnishing it when requested within that time frame.

That 20 year old activist (Disha Ravi) you refer was arrested because she was clearly involved (via the document shared by Greta Thunberg) in seditious activity towards the sovereign state of India, nothing illegal or unethical about that I guess! She was carted off to a different state because the outcome of her illicit activities could have led to more violence in that other state hence it would be apt that she face the courts within that state's jurisdiction.

There has been not a single incident of anti-democratic measure from the current Indian government, it would be more than interesting if you could provide rational, logical and judicially verifiable information to counter that.

From your tone and attitude, it looks like you have some kind of unwarranted grudge against the current government, most probably because you are a crony of the Congress who's sitting in the opposition, playing every game possible to topple the good natured environment created by the currently in power BJP government.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#117

Post by higerordermap »

thunderbong wrote: post #115
higerordermap wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're underestimating how conservative people are in general. There is a fear of Islam propagation in general populace of India, and there are valid reasons for it. When you have uninformed general populace, it's easy to portray yourselves as protector of the culture and they will become fans of you, and defend every action of you. It doesn't matter you make their lives bad, corruption becomes rampant or economy goe…

I agree with most of your points. However, I'm interested in knowing - what are the valid reasons for Islam propagation in India?

Half of them are true. The rest is exaggerated. Both sides hold extreme opinions about this matter.

To be clear I don't hate muslims / christians but the expansionist attitude of few religions. I believe Savarkar's Hindu Atheist ideology, for all his faults, is the way forward for India.

The problem as seen by many right-leaning people is that girls of other faiths (Hindu/Christian) date with low-status-but-high-pretention Muslims, and marry them or if there's opposition by family, elope with them. They also generally get converted into Islam. But the opposite happening (Muslim/Christian getting converted to Hinduism, especially) is very rare in comparison. Also, (non-urban or previous generation mostly) Muslims have multiple wives and have many more children than others. There are anecdotes these women are pressured to have more children by those Muslim families, I don't know how pervasive that is. We can't disagree Islam has some extremist attitudes. (Sadly Hindu leaders also calling their followers to have more children, this doesn't solve the problem)

Due to minority appeasement politics played in last 70 years by Indian National Congress, Muslims also enjoy some more privilege than Hindu counterparts. This despite most of them being ruler/trader class in past (so unlike Scheduled castes). Now the game is majority appeasement and Congress has not caught up. Thus BJP is only player in the town.

A COVID19 superspreader event was an Islam religious event which also villain-ized them more in the eyes of majority.

Lastly, there are always communal fights in many parts of India and each side sees the other as enemies that must be extinguished. (There are statistically exceptional states like Kerala, but again Kerala is very educated state).

Doesn't help some of the practices of Muslim citizens irritate everyone else, like high sounds in mosques and "atther" or whatever that's called smell in public transport.

All this can be used to create a common enemy for majority of youth and boomers today.

Modi is a lot like Trump, but also intelligent enough.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#118

Post by srean »

higerordermap wrote: post #114
srean wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not disagree with a single sentence in your comment, except what is implied but not stated in the last one. I am willing to be convinced with data that about half of the Indian population support the current events, but haven't encountered any such. Note, only around 60% voted. I will happily agree that at the time of elections around 50% of the 60% that voted was in favor of the BJP led coalition. A person with…

> I don't think __all people__ are from IT Cell. I stand by this. Some of them seem to be seriously emotionally connected.

I know. Not quite sure why you have latched on to it. I don't think there is any disagreement there

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#119

Post by srean »

higerordermap wrote: post #117
thunderbong wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of your points. However, I'm interested in knowing - what are the valid reasons for Islam propagation in India?

Half of them are true. The rest is exaggerated. Both sides hold extreme opinions about this matter. To be clear I don't hate muslims / christians but the expansionist attitude of few religions. I believe Savarkar's Hindu Atheist ideology, for all his faults, is the way forward for India. The problem as seen by many right-leaning people is that girls of other faiths (Hindu/Christian) date with low-status-but-high-pret…

> A COVID19 superspreader event was an Islam religious event which also villain-ized them more in the eyes of majority.

This has been called very strongly by the supreme court as malicious and politically motivated and government supported propaganda.

> like high sounds in mosques

Those last 2 to 3 minutes each and aren't on in the night. Hindu celebration pandals violate noise norms for weeks at stretch playing loud Bollywood songs and drums incessantly through out the night. Complaints result in Hindu right wing goons sent to rough up the one who complained. Its hard to take your reasonings in good faith if you make those one sided.

Many of the appeasement complains are also I'm bad faith. Many economic programs target those that are badly off. Turns out there is a significant overlap with that population and Muslim and lower caste Hindu population - which is not to claim all Muslims or all lower caste are economically backwards.

What is offensive about itar ? Its a traditional perfume/deodorant. Eberyone can see wjat this is - just institutionsl Muslim hatred of the hindu right. What's the logic here ? Gajra perfume is good itar perfume is some sort of a national politics issue.

The guy who used to grovel in apologies to the Brits is a hero now. Golwalkar the fountainhead of Hindu right wrote that Muslims are the real problem and it'd them who have to be fought not the colonizing British forces yet its Nehru who is branded Brit loyalist.

The contention is whether India should be modeled with values of liberalism and plurarism or insular right wing and fascist ideas

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#120

Post by eicossa »

higerordermap wrote: post #117
thunderbong wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of your points. However, I'm interested in knowing - what are the valid reasons for Islam propagation in India?

Half of them are true. The rest is exaggerated. Both sides hold extreme opinions about this matter. To be clear I don't hate muslims / christians but the expansionist attitude of few religions. I believe Savarkar's Hindu Atheist ideology, for all his faults, is the way forward for India. The problem as seen by many right-leaning people is that girls of other faiths (Hindu/Christian) date with low-status-but-high-pret…

I couldn't have stated these things better.
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