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Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

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Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#601
post #575

As dis-heartening as this story is, compared to a couple of years ago, it is encouraging to see lots of comments from people beginning to wake up to what is going on with this craziness and not being modded here. Free speech is about protecting the right of the un-popular and views that some may find utterly repugnant. Why? because, as we are seeing with all of the woke craziness, when you don't stand up for everyone…

Freedom speech as defined in the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution states that "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." What we are seeing here is a consequence of our capitalist society. It is now more profitable for eBay and other companies to pull or ban thi…

Free speech is also an ideal that some people find value in outside of a legal context. People obviously care about being told what they can say and think, indepenant of the law.

What we are seeing is not an inevitable consequence of capitalism and reducing it to a profit motive misses much of the picture. It may benefit eBay's bottom line, but there other other factors at play.

For example, the public expectations of private companies are changing, as more people want them to act as arbiters of morality. Similarly, corporations are increasingly adding social ideals to their objectives. While there is clearly a PR aspect at play, corporate leaders and shareholders can and do balance moral objectives against their bottom line.

I think what people are reacting to is the feeling that they are loosing control to corporations over the direction of social change. Just as individuals can feel disempowered in the face of corporate influence in political arena, individuals feel disempowered by corporate influence in field of morality and social change.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#602

The modern version of book burning? Are the people enacting this too cowardly to stand up to "the mob". What a strange time we live in.

What hyperbole. The publisher decided to stop publishing a book. Ebay decided to enforce their TOS that has been in place all over. It's hardly book burning. Edit: Also, you know there are Americans out there actually burning books like the Quran, right? No need to be outraged over slippery slope fallacious "book burning" when you could spend that energy on cases where real actual book burning has taken place.

Perhaps - but at what point do we stand up and say "no"? One day something you agree with or love will be taken down because it's found to be "offensive".

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I err on the side of not censoring. However, if they're gonna stop printing a couple of books because of severe racist overtones then whatever. But if they're banning the sale , which then leads to ownership , that's too far. We have to draw a line somewhere. As a heavily left leaning person who feels unnerved about the state of politics at the moment, this decision is extremely discomforting.

> severe racist overtones I haven't seen a good summary of what parts of the withdrawn books were considered inappropriate, but my understanding is that the stronger objection has been to political cartoons that Theodor Seuss Geisel created. I've not seen any assertions (never mind evidence) that the children's books contained "severe racist overtones". To be clear, I'm pushing back on the "severe" adjective. There c…

I am tempted to find these books, since it is many years since I've seen them, just to figure out what the actual offensive images are. It's irritating to think that my disposable income should be used that way, because otherwise I would not be able to see what is under discussion.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#606
post #575

As dis-heartening as this story is, compared to a couple of years ago, it is encouraging to see lots of comments from people beginning to wake up to what is going on with this craziness and not being modded here. Free speech is about protecting the right of the un-popular and views that some may find utterly repugnant. Why? because, as we are seeing with all of the woke craziness, when you don't stand up for everyone…

Freedom speech as defined in the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution states that "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." What we are seeing here is a consequence of our capitalist society. It is now more profitable for eBay and other companies to pull or ban thi…

Ah yes the old "just build your own internet" argument.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is there is thin line between moderation/regulation and censorship.

The line is rather stark. eBay choosing not to facilitate the sale of books containing racist caricatures is not in the same ballpark as a government suppressing ideas. It’s not even the same sport.

It might be a thinner line than you think: At the end of the day, governments and private companies are both just big entities with strong influence, specially in monopoly situations. Consider this: If ebay and amazon simultaneously ban one specific book, author, genre, etc.; how much would that decrease their reach?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re being downvoted because people here would rather pretend to be heroes standing up to the “woke mob” than acknowledge the reality that nobody is forcing the Seuss estate or even eBay to do anything. No surprise that so many non-white people report problems in tech circles given the moral grandstanding on behalf of some caricatures going on here.

Censorship is censorship is censorship. The distinction of whether it is done by Ebay, government, bank, w/e is a distinction without meaning to the individual. US is maybe few steps away from China's social credit ( right now mildly distributed, but still with ridiculously big players able to effectively ban you from the market ).

So is it also censorship that certain posts are flagged and moderated on HN? It's a hard-line stance, anything goes?

Dr. Seuss Enterprises stopped printing these books because they decided the books were insensitive and offensive. Should we force them to print more of these books?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#609

Now this part is getting a little too carried away. It is one thing for libraries and bookstores to decide not to offer for borrowing or sale things that they disagree with. It is another (and overstepping imo) for Ebay to restrict individual people from selling to others goods that are not illegal or in violation of their other practical rules (no selling jewelry, monetary equivalents, etc). This falls into the cate…

Yep. I err on the side of not censoring. However, if they're gonna stop printing a couple of books because of severe racist overtones then whatever. But if they're banning the sale , which then leads to ownership , that's too far. We have to draw a line somewhere. As a heavily left leaning person who feels unnerved about the state of politics at the moment, this decision is extremely discomforting.

I would urge you to reconsider this stance since it would likely result in bans of classical work by Seneca( https://sententiaeantiquae.com/2018/01/28/seneca-on-the-trea... ) when taken to its logical conclusion.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#610

I don't know any culture that banned books independent of their content that people didn't regret in the future. A few months ago I was reading about schools banning the book "To Kill a Mockingbird" because it contains basically the "n" word. I'm not american, and and havent read that book. I watched the movie, through, and it seemed to me to be a very anti racism message. I think instead of banning, schools should w…

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold (used copyright law to do that). I once stood in a book shop (teenager, time to look at books but not enough money to buy them) and some skindheads wanted to buy it, it wasn't available. They went away. Providing context is good, but frankly also really difficult and why not just provide newer childrens books that are more inclusive.

Perhaps they would have read the book - realised it's complete trash and realised the error of their ways?
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